Honda Car Forum

SoCalMike wrote:
> gmccx wrote:
>> I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may well
>> know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer some
>> time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that time I
>> have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition pinging to
>> me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.
>
> if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine. 4th or even 3rd
> would be more reasonable.

And I didn't say I generally drive it that way, but you didn't answer my
question either.

Besides, I'm not sure I fully agree.
If I'm just maintaining speed on a level road I see no problem with 5th,
and I don't think it should ping in any case since I find in the book
(and on the car) an anti-knock sensor which I guessed should prevent
that from happening.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

gmccx wrote:
> SoCalMike wrote:
>
>> gmccx wrote:
>>
>>> I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may
>>> well know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer
>>> some time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that
>>> time I have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition
>>> pinging to me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.
>>
>>
>> if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine. 4th or even 3rd
>> would be more reasonable.
>
>
> And I didn't say I generally drive it that way, but you didn't answer my
> question either.

chugging, pinging, knocking and sluggish accelleration can normally be
expected when in 5th gear at 45mph.

does that answer the question?

Certain cars are fine in 5th at 45 mph, like the Miata and the Civic EX.
What's relevant is the rpm at 45 mph.

motsco_ _ wrote:

> gmccx,
>
> You really should read the chapter in your Owner's manual about "5-speed
> manual transmission" Maximum speeds for each gear are noted.
>
> Why your mechanic didn't question your use of FIFTH gear at 45 MPH is
> beyond me. That's probably one of the best ways to destroy a Honda,
> other than failing to check your oil level.
>
> The car came with a Fine manual. Please read the fine manual. Stay safe.
>
> 'Curly'

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BALIc.65376$MB3.21709@attbi_s04...
>
>
> gmccx wrote:
> > SoCalMike wrote:
> >
> >> gmccx wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may
> >>> well know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer
> >>> some time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that
> >>> time I have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition
> >>> pinging to me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.
> >>
> >>
> >> if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine. 4th or even 3rd
> >> would be more reasonable.
> >
> >
> > And I didn't say I generally drive it that way, but you didn't answer my
> > question either.
>
> chugging, pinging, knocking and sluggish accelleration can normally be
> expected when in 5th gear at 45mph.

That's about 1500 rpm in my Accord.

No pinging, chugging or any other untorward behaviors.
Just accelleration.

I'm responding to several responses to my original or second note.

Sean Dinh wrote:
> Certain cars are fine in 5th at 45 mph, like the Miata and the Civic >EX.
> What's relevant is the rpm at 45 mph.

Quite right and I have noted that before, but I just don't recall right
now, and it's good bit higher than the 1500 mentioned by someone else.

And for the person who had no answer but went on about reading the book,
(>>>You really should read the chapter in your Owner's manual) I have.
However, it isn't perfectly clear what it means:

4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.

I'm not sure what the second line means, but perhaps the reason my
mechanic didn't question my use of 5th gear at 45 mph is because the car
is geared such that it isn't a problem. In my original question (that
never got answered) I didn't suggest I was drag racing in 5th at 45-50.

>>if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine.

I also can't imagine riding around at 45-50 in third gear all the time.
Doesn't sound like a very good idea. My car will actually make
59 in second gear but that doesn't mean there should be no upshift prior
to that.

And just for the record, I've owned a number of sports/sportish cars
over the years, and I'm not so far in the habit of killing them. I
drove my '79 RX-7 for just under 20 years, and a couple of Z cars, a
Datsun 2000 and an MG prior to that for various lengths of time.
Didn't kill any of'em.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

Sean Dinh wrote:
> Certain cars are fine in 5th at 45 mph, like the Miata and the Civic EX.
> What's relevant is the rpm at 45 mph.
>
> motsco_ _ wrote:
>
>
>>gmccx,
>>
>>You really should read the chapter in your Owner's manual about "5-speed
>>manual transmission" Maximum speeds for each gear are noted.
>>
>>Why your mechanic didn't question your use of FIFTH gear at 45 MPH is
>>beyond me. That's probably one of the best ways to destroy a Honda,
>>other than failing to check your oil level.
>>
>>The car came with a Fine manual. Please read the fine manual. Stay safe.
>>
>>'Curly'
>
>

> >>if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine.
>
> I also can't imagine riding around at 45-50 in third gear all the time.

4th would probably be optimal. 3rd will probably be noisy. 5th will give
the best mileage on a flat level road when cruising, but it would take
at least 1 downshift to get any reasonable accelleration.

hondas just arent torque monsters. theyre made to rev smoothly.

It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.

gmccx wrote:

> 4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
> 4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>
> I'm not sure what the second line means, but perhaps the reason my
> mechanic didn't question my use of 5th gear at 45 mph is because the car
> is geared such that it isn't a problem. In my original question (that
> never got answered) I didn't suggest I was drag racing in 5th at 45-50.

Sean Dinh wrote:
> It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
> constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.
>
> gmccx wrote:
>
>
>>4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
>>4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>>
>>I'm not sure what the second line means, but perhaps the reason my
>>mechanic didn't question my use of 5th gear at 45 mph is because the car
>>is geared such that it isn't a problem. In my original question (that
>>never got answered) I didn't suggest I was drag racing in 5th at 45-50.
>
>

Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
same rpm doesn't produce that sound. That is the part that would tend
to make me think it isn't a ping at all, unless shifting to 5th makes
some ignition timeing change by default to favor mileage or such.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

SoCalMike wrote:

>
>> >>if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine.
>>
>> I also can't imagine riding around at 45-50 in third gear all the time.
>
>
> 4th would probably be optimal. 3rd will probably be noisy. 5th will give
> the best mileage on a flat level road when cruising, but it would take
> at least 1 downshift to get any reasonable accelleration.
>
> hondas just arent torque monsters. theyre made to rev smoothly.

I wouldn't disagree with that and in fact that's what I normall do. But
see my response to Sean just prior.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:29:28 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:

>Sean Dinh wrote:
>> It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
>> constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.
>>
>> gmccx wrote:
>>
>>
>>>4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
>>>4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>>>
>>>I'm not sure what the second line means, but perhaps the reason my
>>>mechanic didn't question my use of 5th gear at 45 mph is because the car
>>>is geared such that it isn't a problem. In my original question (that
>>>never got answered) I didn't suggest I was drag racing in 5th at 45-50.
>>
>>
>
>Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
>to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
>that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
>what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
>same rpm doesn't produce that sound. That is the part that would tend
>to make me think it isn't a ping at all, unless shifting to 5th makes
>some ignition timeing change by default to favor mileage or such.

I have the same "pinging" in my '99 Integra between 2000rpm and 2500rpm,
worst right in the middle of the range and really noticeable if I stay in
5th up a moderate grade. The speed at 2400rpm is ~50mph so it's a real
PITA on local roads where the speed is 45-50mph. I first thought it was
rattling heatshields (why the hell does Honda not fix that problem) but the
cat converter ones are gone now; then I thought it might be the notorious
rattling double wall manifold down-pipe. I also notice that if I rap one
of the fan shrouds with my knuckle it makes a rattle which is close to the
sound.

Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
is necessary to provoke it. I'm still suspicious that it *is* pinging,
since it's so load dependent - my take: Honda made a cock-up of the
ignition profile in the ECU. I'm going to try backing off the ignition
timing a touch - it is slightly advanced of the middle mark. I also think
oxygenated fuel is an aggravating factor here.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??