Honda Car Forum

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> writes:

> I have one timing belt re-installation under my belt.
>
> No doubt like you, I am wondering whether your timing belt slipped. It
> sounds like you're wondering if the key is somehow not holding the
> crankshaft TB pulley securely, too.
>
> FWIW: I googled and saw a post that said one timing belt tooth off = 19
> degrees of crank timing. The middle mark of the three marks is 18 degrees
> from TDC. Seems like this is coincident enough with your finding today to
> suggest your belt is off by one tooth.
>
> Barring other suggestions from those who have more timing belt
> installations under their belt, I'd do a full timing belt
> re-installation. This would allow me to examine the crankshaft TB pulley
> key, maybe the camshaft TB pulley key, and the tensioner. If anything
> looks at all out of sorts, I'd replace the timing belt, the tensioner,
> and the tensioner spring.
>
> Given that you don't know how old the timing belt is anyway, replacement
> might be a very good idea.
>
> I've read of people checking the piston's position by sticking a rod down
> the spark plug hole. If you don't want to do a full timing belt
> re-installation, I'd sure do this.

That's so hot.

So I went for it. I stuck the handle of a wooden spoon down the #1 cyl.
Spark plug hole and felt a piston at the top. I guess I trusted the
person before me put in the crank pulley key correctly. It seemed like a
simple mistake where the last person to install the timing belt just
matched it up totally wrong and used the ig. timing marks instead of the
tdc mark. I'm suprised they wouldn't have noticed though. I was able to
swap back and forth between turning the camshaft and crankshaft to line
up the marks and slipped the T-belt back on and adjusted the tensioner.
It's awesome that honda allows you to access the tensioner without a lot
of disassembly. Much thanks to all the input! This post is kind of half
assed, but I'm a busy guy! The car runs like a top and now I understand
why a lot of kids always pull up to me and ask if I want to sell it.


Much grattitude,

Mark

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PWGHc.8727$sD4.5851@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> I have one timing belt re-installation under my belt.
<...>
> If anything looks at all out of sorts, I'd replace the timing
> belt, the tensioner, and the tensioner spring.

You forgot to mention replacing the water pump, Caroline, 8¬).


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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:42:33 -0500, Chopface <thename_is_slick@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>So I went for it. I stuck the handle of a wooden spoon down the #1 cyl.
>Spark plug hole and felt a piston at the top. I guess I trusted the
>person before me put in the crank pulley key correctly. It seemed like a
>simple mistake where the last person to install the timing belt just
>matched it up totally wrong and used the ig. timing marks instead of the
>tdc mark. I'm suprised they wouldn't have noticed though. I was able to
>swap back and forth between turning the camshaft and crankshaft to line
>up the marks and slipped the T-belt back on and adjusted the tensioner.
>It's awesome that honda allows you to access the tensioner without a lot
>of disassembly. Much thanks to all the input! This post is kind of half
>assed, but I'm a busy guy! The car runs like a top and now I understand
>why a lot of kids always pull up to me and ask if I want to sell it.

So how does the timing light work now?:-) Was the ignition right with the
belt repositioned? I'm curious how you got the tensioner loosened - I once
tried doing the tension on a '90 Civic we had and the clearance between the
inner fender and the engine was so tight I had no wrench which could get at
it. Did you have a thin head socket driver or maybe a 3/8" drive breaker
bar?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:
> So how does the timing light work now?:-) Was the ignition right with the
> belt repositioned? I'm curious how you got the tensioner loosened - I once
> tried doing the tension on a '90 Civic we had and the clearance between the
> inner fender and the engine was so tight I had no wrench which could get at
> it. Did you have a thin head socket driver or maybe a 3/8" drive breaker
> bar?
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??


George,

The timing looks like it is right on now. I might check it again after
driving the car for a while. I just used an average 3/8" socket wrench
to get at the tensioner bolt under the black plastic cap. Maybe the
soclket set I have has short sockets. There wasn't a lot of room to
ratchet the wrench, but I would take the wrench off and click the socket
on the wrench to get it at the right angle to torque the tensior bolt
back down really well. Maybe the D16A6 sits a little differently in the
engine bay and there is more room in my car than your old '90?

I am going to try to check my valve lash when I get the chance. I did
around 10k ago when I got the car and I figure this couldn't hurt
considering how the valves must have been feeling pressure at times when
they were not supposed to.

Mark

I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may well
know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer some
time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that time I
have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition pinging to
me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.

I've had a mechanic drive it and he thought it was just some sort of
vibration that I've been unable to find.

Oh, this is a 95 Del Sol VTEC model. If the timing belt had been off
placed by one tooth on intake or exhaust cam or such, would there indeed
be a notable difference in the way the car runs/idles/whatever?

I've not been *too* concerned about it obviously, but I do wonder from
time to time if I ought to open it up and see about this.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc



jim beam wrote:

> i'd be very careful. i don't doubt that you've checked, and
> double-checked, but i've seen mis-toothed belts a number of times
> [junior tech not doing the belt right first time] and it will drive real
> rough if that's happened. and there's a massive lack of performance.
>
> regarding the cam wheel, i can't recall exactly, but i think it has
> about 40 teeth. [always an even number for the cam.] 360/40 = 9
> degrees, so that would be the offset you mention.
>
> i'd leave it overnight and look at it on the cold light of a new day
> before checking one last time - it really is very unusual for a belt to
> jump just one tooth. particularly if the timing belt tension is halfway
> correct.
>
> remove the spark plugs before aligning for tdc - makes sure there's no
> compression left in a cylinder "adjusting" your position after you last
> checked it. also makes it easier to turn. you can stick something down
> the spark plug hole to check tdc, but it's not very reliable because you
> have a number of degree of rotation with the piston at the top which are
> hard to detect by this method. stick to the white mark on the pulley
> wheel as being reliable.
>
>
> Chopface wrote:
>
>> I decided to see if I could slip the belt off of the camshaft pulley
>> with the crankshaft lined up at TDC. It looks doable and I have a
>> socket wrench combo that can get at the tensioner bolt to redo the
>> tension according to my Helm manual once the belt is back on.
>>
>> Does anyone have enough experience based on what I've shared in these
>> three posts to judge that the crankshaft pulley was put back on
>> properly with the key in when whoever screwed this all up? With the
>> crankshaft pulley at TDC, the camshaft pulley now has the up mark
>> facing downward, about 5:00, and a marked line on the camshaft pulley
>> on the opposite side of the pulley from the plastic pointer is
>> approximately lined up with the pointer.
>>
>> I am very tempted to try to fix this, but think I should probably wait
>> to see if I can trust that the #1 piston is truly TDC when the
>> crankshaft pulley mark is ligned up for TDC. Should i stick something
>> down the spark plug hole?
>>
>> Mark
>
>

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

||On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:42:33 -0500, Chopface <thename_is_slick@yahoo.com>
||wrote:
||
||>So I went for it. I stuck the handle of a wooden spoon down the #1 cyl.
||>Spark plug hole and felt a piston at the top. I guess I trusted the
||>person before me put in the crank pulley key correctly. It seemed like a
||>simple mistake where the last person to install the timing belt just
||>matched it up totally wrong and used the ig. timing marks instead of the
||>tdc mark. I'm suprised they wouldn't have noticed though. I was able to
||>swap back and forth between turning the camshaft and crankshaft to line
||>up the marks and slipped the T-belt back on and adjusted the tensioner.
||>It's awesome that honda allows you to access the tensioner without a lot
||>of disassembly. Much thanks to all the input! This post is kind of half
||>assed, but I'm a busy guy! The car runs like a top and now I understand
||>why a lot of kids always pull up to me and ask if I want to sell it.
||
||So how does the timing light work now?:-) Was the ignition right with the
||belt repositioned? I'm curious how you got the tensioner loosened - I once
||tried doing the tension on a '90 Civic we had and the clearance between the
||inner fender and the engine was so tight I had no wrench which could get at
||it. Did you have a thin head socket driver or maybe a 3/8" drive breaker
||bar?

George
Perhaps the motor mounts on your Civic were worn or broken and the engine had
shifted to the left?
Texas Parts Guy

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:06:50 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0400, George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>
>||On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:42:33 -0500, Chopface <thename_is_slick@yahoo.com>
>||wrote:
>||
>||>So I went for it. I stuck the handle of a wooden spoon down the #1 cyl.
>||>Spark plug hole and felt a piston at the top. I guess I trusted the
>||>person before me put in the crank pulley key correctly. It seemed like a
>||>simple mistake where the last person to install the timing belt just
>||>matched it up totally wrong and used the ig. timing marks instead of the
>||>tdc mark. I'm suprised they wouldn't have noticed though. I was able to
>||>swap back and forth between turning the camshaft and crankshaft to line
>||>up the marks and slipped the T-belt back on and adjusted the tensioner.
>||>It's awesome that honda allows you to access the tensioner without a lot
>||>of disassembly. Much thanks to all the input! This post is kind of half
>||>assed, but I'm a busy guy! The car runs like a top and now I understand
>||>why a lot of kids always pull up to me and ask if I want to sell it.
>||
>||So how does the timing light work now?:-) Was the ignition right with the
>||belt repositioned? I'm curious how you got the tensioner loosened - I once
>||tried doing the tension on a '90 Civic we had and the clearance between the
>||inner fender and the engine was so tight I had no wrench which could get at
>||it. Did you have a thin head socket driver or maybe a 3/8" drive breaker
>||bar?
>
>George
> Perhaps the motor mounts on your Civic were worn or broken and the engine had
>shifted to the left?

Nope. All the Hondas/Acuras I've had are tight there - the '90 Civic was
near impossible.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

gmccx wrote:
>
> I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may well
> know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer some
> time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that time I
> have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition pinging to
> me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.

if youre in 5th doing 45mph, youre lugging the engine. 4th or even 3rd
would be more reasonable.

gmccx wrote:
>
> I've asked this before without getting a good answer, but you may well
> know it. I had my timing belt/water pump changed at the dealer some
> time ago (probably a year or two or so by now) and since that time I
> have noticed what sounds like just a little pre-ignition pinging to
> me...but only in 5th gear in the 45-50 mph range.

=========================

gmccx,

You really should read the chapter in your Owner's manual about "5-speed
manual transmission" Maximum speeds for each gear are noted.

Why your mechanic didn't question your use of FIFTH gear at 45 MPH is
beyond me. That's probably one of the best ways to destroy a Honda,
other than failing to check your oil level.

The car came with a Fine manual. Please read the fine manual. Stay safe.

'Curly'