Honda Car Forum

I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???

The manual says something about the starter sending a signal to ECU
depends on the engine tempature. I'm assuming that hot engine
tempature
is reason why the starter does not turn over. No wonder I have had to
wait to cool down.

On 8 Jul 2004 17:44:45 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:

>I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
>default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
>it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
>relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
>result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
>dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
>even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
>electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???

People said main relay based on your description. Unless I'm mistaken,
this is the first we've heard that the starter doesn't even turn the engine
over and that's likely nothing to do with the distributor. Check battery
cables and connections, especially the ground which (usually) goes under
the battery shelf and across, via a strap, to the transmission. Do you
hear a click from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to "Start"?
Have someone else turn the key and listen under the hood. Check the
voltage at the battery and the starter/solenoid when the key is turned to
Start.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<j05se09kh6qfjmjl14gfnh17s0f2krrhhe@4ax.com>. ..
> On 8 Jul 2004 17:44:45 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
>
> >I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
> >default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
> >it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
> >relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
> >result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
> >dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
> >even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
> >electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???
>
> People said main relay based on your description. Unless I'm mistaken,
> this is the first we've heard that the starter doesn't even turn the engine
> over and that's likely nothing to do with the distributor. Check battery
> cables and connections, especially the ground which (usually) goes under
> the battery shelf and across, via a strap, to the transmission. Do you
> hear a click from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to "Start"?
> Have someone else turn the key and listen under the hood. Check the
> voltage at the battery and the starter/solenoid when the key is turned to
> Start.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Ok. I will check the battery and listen to the starter solenoid.

yeah, George, I believe the problem on starter/solenoid. Let me ask
this
why my car has to cool before start the engine. If the car is hot,
does not start right away. Do you know if hot engine is not good to
activate the starter/solenoid right?

For the vast majority of materials, including the copper in the starter
solenoid, resistance increases with higher temperature. Higher
resistance means less current, assuming the voltage is the same. Thus if
your starter solenoid is marginal when cool, it may not work at all when
hot.

Red Cloud wrote:
>
> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<j05se09kh6qfjmjl14gfnh17s0f2krrhhe@4ax.com>. ..
> > On 8 Jul 2004 17:44:45 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
> >
> > >I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
> > >default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
> > >it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
> > >relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
> > >result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
> > >dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
> > >even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
> > >electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???
> >
> > People said main relay based on your description. Unless I'm mistaken,
> > this is the first we've heard that the starter doesn't even turn the engine
> > over and that's likely nothing to do with the distributor. Check battery
> > cables and connections, especially the ground which (usually) goes under
> > the battery shelf and across, via a strap, to the transmission. Do you
> > hear a click from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to "Start"?
> > Have someone else turn the key and listen under the hood. Check the
> > voltage at the battery and the starter/solenoid when the key is turned to
> > Start.
> >
> > Rgds, George Macdonald
> >
> > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
>
> Ok. I will check the battery and listen to the starter solenoid.
>
> yeah, George, I believe the problem on starter/solenoid. Let me ask
> this
> why my car has to cool before start the engine. If the car is hot,
> does not start right away. Do you know if hot engine is not good to
> activate the starter/solenoid right?

On 9 Jul 2004 23:54:28 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:

>George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<j05se09kh6qfjmjl14gfnh17s0f2krrhhe@4ax.com>. ..
>> On 8 Jul 2004 17:44:45 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
>>
>> >I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
>> >default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
>> >it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
>> >relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
>> >result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
>> >dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
>> >even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
>> >electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???
>>
>> People said main relay based on your description. Unless I'm mistaken,
>> this is the first we've heard that the starter doesn't even turn the engine
>> over and that's likely nothing to do with the distributor. Check battery
>> cables and connections, especially the ground which (usually) goes under
>> the battery shelf and across, via a strap, to the transmission. Do you
>> hear a click from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to "Start"?
>> Have someone else turn the key and listen under the hood. Check the
>> voltage at the battery and the starter/solenoid when the key is turned to
>> Start.
>
> Ok. I will check the battery and listen to the starter solenoid.
>
> yeah, George, I believe the problem on starter/solenoid. Let me ask
>this
>why my car has to cool before start the engine. If the car is hot,
>does not start right away. Do you know if hot engine is not good to
>activate the starter/solenoid right?

It could be a small amount of dirt in the solenoid's path - just enough to
jam it when hot and the clearance is slightly different. It also could be
just a quirk of high current systems in a car. I've seen cars which would
start fine as long as the air was not humid - a bit of rain and/or high
humidity was enough to impede the ground path back to the battery by enough
that there was insufficient voltage/current to throw the solenoid. The
solution was to take off the ground strap connections, clean them up,
grease with vaseline and retighten.

Check the cables and connections to the starter/solenoid and the ground
straps and their connections first before you attack the starter/solenoid.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message news:<40EF9FC2.B492115F@junkmail.com>...
> For the vast majority of materials, including the copper in the starter
> solenoid, resistance increases with higher temperature. Higher
> resistance means less current, assuming the voltage is the same. Thus if
> your starter solenoid is marginal when cool, it may not work at all when
> hot.
>


I heard the click on solenoid when it did not start up. So the
problem might be on starter motor and/or flywheel. The gear of start
motor and/or flywheel
gear might worn out. Flywheel replacement is big job, isn't it?



> Red Cloud wrote:
> >
> > George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<j05se09kh6qfjmjl14gfnh17s0f2krrhhe@4ax.com>. ..
> > > On 8 Jul 2004 17:44:45 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
> > >
> > > >I don't know if the original talk about main relay (89-91 civic/accord
> > > >default) here gave a solution to my car starting up problem. They said
> > > >it's main relay problem. I'm getting doubt it. I put another main
> > > >relay when my car was not starting up right. Well I got the same
> > > >result. I have had to wait 30 minutes to start up the car. There is a
> > > >dead silence when trying to start up. The starting motor does not
> > > >even turn over. It seems to be the problem lies in some kind of
> > > >electrical contact that something is not contact right. Distributor???
> > >
> > > People said main relay based on your description. Unless I'm mistaken,
> > > this is the first we've heard that the starter doesn't even turn the engine
> > > over and that's likely nothing to do with the distributor. Check battery
> > > cables and connections, especially the ground which (usually) goes under
> > > the battery shelf and across, via a strap, to the transmission. Do you
> > > hear a click from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to "Start"?
> > > Have someone else turn the key and listen under the hood. Check the
> > > voltage at the battery and the starter/solenoid when the key is turned to
> > > Start.
> > >
> > > Rgds, George Macdonald
> > >
> > > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
> >
> > Ok. I will check the battery and listen to the starter solenoid.
> >
> > yeah, George, I believe the problem on starter/solenoid. Let me ask
> > this
> > why my car has to cool before start the engine. If the car is hot,
> > does not start right away. Do you know if hot engine is not good to
> > activate the starter/solenoid right?

Red Cloud wrote:
> I heard the click on solenoid when it did not start up. So the
> problem might be on starter motor and/or flywheel. The gear of start
> motor and/or flywheel
> gear might worn out. Flywheel replacement is big job, isn't it?


++++++++++++++

If it was the gear or the flywheel teeth, all your neighbors would have
told you already. That problem can be heard all across town.

'Curly'

On 10 Jul 2004 22:31:34 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:

>Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message news:<40EF9FC2.B492115F@junkmail.com>...
>> For the vast majority of materials, including the copper in the starter
>> solenoid, resistance increases with higher temperature. Higher
>> resistance means less current, assuming the voltage is the same. Thus if
>> your starter solenoid is marginal when cool, it may not work at all when
>> hot.
>>
>
>
> I heard the click on solenoid when it did not start up. So the
>problem might be on starter motor and/or flywheel. The gear of start
>motor and/or flywheel
>gear might worn out. Flywheel replacement is big job, isn't it?

The click tells that *some* electrical umm, oomph is getting to the
solenoid. The solenoid may not be getting enough of a kick to throw it all
the way into full engagement or it may be impeded by some dust or dirt.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<3mn1f0tlkli6bjcebf0s811njv91124ldq@4ax.com>. ..
> On 10 Jul 2004 22:31:34 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
>
> >Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message news:<40EF9FC2.B492115F@junkmail.com>...
> >> For the vast majority of materials, including the copper in the starter
> >> solenoid, resistance increases with higher temperature. Higher
> >> resistance means less current, assuming the voltage is the same. Thus if
> >> your starter solenoid is marginal when cool, it may not work at all when
> >> hot.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I heard the click on solenoid when it did not start up. So the
> >problem might be on starter motor and/or flywheel. The gear of start
> >motor and/or flywheel
> >gear might worn out. Flywheel replacement is big job, isn't it?
>
> The click tells that *some* electrical umm, oomph is getting to the
> solenoid. The solenoid may not be getting enough of a kick to throw it all
> the way into full engagement or it may be impeded by some dust or dirt.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??


I'm trying to remove starter. I couldn't. I have no enough space to unplug two
bolts holding a starter.

On 12 Jul 2004 12:10:53 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:

>George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<3mn1f0tlkli6bjcebf0s811njv91124ldq@4ax.com>. ..
>> On 10 Jul 2004 22:31:34 -0700, mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk (Red Cloud) wrote:
>>
>> >Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message news:<40EF9FC2.B492115F@junkmail.com>...
>> >> For the vast majority of materials, including the copper in the starter
>> >> solenoid, resistance increases with higher temperature. Higher
>> >> resistance means less current, assuming the voltage is the same. Thus if
>> >> your starter solenoid is marginal when cool, it may not work at all when
>> >> hot.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > I heard the click on solenoid when it did not start up. So the
>> >problem might be on starter motor and/or flywheel. The gear of start
>> >motor and/or flywheel
>> >gear might worn out. Flywheel replacement is big job, isn't it?
>>
>> The click tells that *some* electrical umm, oomph is getting to the
>> solenoid. The solenoid may not be getting enough of a kick to throw it all
>> the way into full engagement or it may be impeded by some dust or dirt.
>
>
> I'm trying to remove starter. I couldn't. I have no enough space to unplug two
>bolts holding a starter.

I don't recall which model we're discussing here but you're likely going to
have to take the air intake and maybe some other accessories off to get at
it. Then you'll need the right tools: a socket set and the right length
extensions - throw in a wobbly extension or swivel joint to be sure.

At the risk of getting boring, check the ground strap connections FIRST.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??