Honda Car Forum

I've got a 96 Civic EX coupe with 227,500 miles (mostly highway miles).
After the factory tires (replaced around 65,000 miles) I put four Michelin
X-One tires on the car and replaced them at about 155,000 miles (90,000 on
the tires) when the tires has a considerable amount of scalloping/cupping. I
replaced them with another set of four Michelin X-One tires and after a
little of 70,000 miles the scalloping/cupping is quite noticeable.

To be clear, the scalloping/cupping appears over the life of the Michelin
X-One tires and is quite noticeable at certain speeds. I've read that worn
shocks (worn suspension parts) can cause this type of uneven wear. I know
tires don't last forever but the wear pattern on two consecutive sets of
tires has been identical with scalloping/cupping on the inside edge of all
four tires.

Before I spend another $400 or $500 on a set of four tires, what should I
ask a repair shop to look for in the suspension. The car consistently checks
out as in alignment and dealers have told me the suspension is OK. Anyone
got some ideas, I'm really tired of the tire noise. The car is reasonably
quiet on new tires but is awfully loud with 70,000 miles on the tires.

Thanks,
Peter

Well the stock struts(shocks) on your car are certainly not meant to last
227k. Most people never replace these things because they just don't think
about it. I used to sell suspension parts quite a bit and found that if
there is any kind of leakage around the strut shaft, they need to be
replaced..if they have 50,000 miles or so on them then they are suspect even
then. The old bounce test for vehicles just doesn't work anymore. Cars are
so light and suspensions so much stiffer that pushing down on a car and
having it come up to a stop doesn't indicate a good suspension system.
Other indicators like handling, mileage, age and your tell-tale sign of tire
cupping are indicators that your struts need to be replaced all around and
an alignment performed. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get new tires at the
same time so that you really get to feel the effect of having new components
the first time you drive it after having it repaired. It will probably
drive like a new car if none of the other bushings and such are worn-out.

CaptainKrunch


"Mainecooncat1" <nothere@notthere.com> wrote in message
news:6sWdnapSNoHJRXzdRVn-sA@adelphia.com...
> I've got a 96 Civic EX coupe with 227,500 miles (mostly highway miles).
> After the factory tires (replaced around 65,000 miles) I put four Michelin
> X-One tires on the car and replaced them at about 155,000 miles (90,000 on
> the tires) when the tires has a considerable amount of scalloping/cupping.
I
> replaced them with another set of four Michelin X-One tires and after a
> little of 70,000 miles the scalloping/cupping is quite noticeable.
>
> To be clear, the scalloping/cupping appears over the life of the Michelin
> X-One tires and is quite noticeable at certain speeds. I've read that worn
> shocks (worn suspension parts) can cause this type of uneven wear. I know
> tires don't last forever but the wear pattern on two consecutive sets of
> tires has been identical with scalloping/cupping on the inside edge of all
> four tires.
>
> Before I spend another $400 or $500 on a set of four tires, what should I
> ask a repair shop to look for in the suspension. The car consistently
checks
> out as in alignment and dealers have told me the suspension is OK. Anyone
> got some ideas, I'm really tired of the tire noise. The car is reasonably
> quiet on new tires but is awfully loud with 70,000 miles on the tires.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
>

with respect, if you're getting 70k out of these tires, you don't have a
significant problem. and that's what your dealers/alignment people keep
telling you too.

you have a car with a factory toe-in spec both front & rear, radical
ackermann angles, front wheel drive with unequal driveshaft lengths,
lean compensated rear wheel alignment geometry... you're /never/ going
to have a perfect tire wear pattern like uncle jeb's old solid-axled
tractor. ever.

Mainecooncat1 wrote:
> I've got a 96 Civic EX coupe with 227,500 miles (mostly highway miles).
> After the factory tires (replaced around 65,000 miles) I put four Michelin
> X-One tires on the car and replaced them at about 155,000 miles (90,000 on
> the tires) when the tires has a considerable amount of scalloping/cupping. I
> replaced them with another set of four Michelin X-One tires and after a
> little of 70,000 miles the scalloping/cupping is quite noticeable.
>
> To be clear, the scalloping/cupping appears over the life of the Michelin
> X-One tires and is quite noticeable at certain speeds. I've read that worn
> shocks (worn suspension parts) can cause this type of uneven wear. I know
> tires don't last forever but the wear pattern on two consecutive sets of
> tires has been identical with scalloping/cupping on the inside edge of all
> four tires.
>
> Before I spend another $400 or $500 on a set of four tires, what should I
> ask a repair shop to look for in the suspension. The car consistently checks
> out as in alignment and dealers have told me the suspension is OK. Anyone
> got some ideas, I'm really tired of the tire noise. The car is reasonably
> quiet on new tires but is awfully loud with 70,000 miles on the tires.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
>

jim beam wrote:

> with respect, if you're getting 70k out of these tires, you don't have a
> significant problem. and that's what your dealers/alignment people keep
> telling you too.
>
> you have a car with a factory toe-in spec both front & rear, radical
> ackermann angles, front wheel drive with unequal driveshaft lengths,
> lean compensated rear wheel alignment geometry... you're /never/ going
> to have a perfect tire wear pattern like uncle jeb's old solid-axled
> tractor. ever.

but that scalloping and cupping isnt normal. its due for struts,
definately. usually when scalloping/cupping happens, its on the rear,
where its lighter.

i saw a car on the freeway that had both rear wheels "Skipping" over the
surfacce. it obviously needed struts.

From: uce@ftc.gov (jim*beam) wrote:

>with respect, if you're getting 70k out of
>these tires, you don't have a significant
>problem.

That's what I was thinking, too. 70K and he's not happy? I'd be thrilled
to see 50K out of a set!

> usually when scalloping/cupping happens, its on the rear,
> where its lighter.

assuming the scalloping only happens on the rear, and you rotated your tires
regularly, wouldn't the scalloping get worn even again when they're in the
front?


--
Disclaimer: This post is solely an individual opinion and does not speak on
behalf of any organization.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:00:04 -0400, "Mainecooncat1" <nothere@notthere.com>
wrote:

>I've got a 96 Civic EX coupe with 227,500 miles (mostly highway miles).
>After the factory tires (replaced around 65,000 miles) I put four Michelin
>X-One tires on the car and replaced them at about 155,000 miles (90,000 on
>the tires) when the tires has a considerable amount of scalloping/cupping. I
>replaced them with another set of four Michelin X-One tires and after a
>little of 70,000 miles the scalloping/cupping is quite noticeable.
>
>To be clear, the scalloping/cupping appears over the life of the Michelin
>X-One tires and is quite noticeable at certain speeds. I've read that worn
>shocks (worn suspension parts) can cause this type of uneven wear. I know
>tires don't last forever but the wear pattern on two consecutive sets of
>tires has been identical with scalloping/cupping on the inside edge of all
>four tires.
>
>Before I spend another $400 or $500 on a set of four tires, what should I
>ask a repair shop to look for in the suspension. The car consistently checks
>out as in alignment and dealers have told me the suspension is OK. Anyone
>got some ideas, I'm really tired of the tire noise. The car is reasonably
>quiet on new tires but is awfully loud with 70,000 miles on the tires.

Get someone "qualified" to do the alignment *and* the wheel balance too -
most tire shops, with the best equipment in the world cannot do the job
right. There's no such thing as "close" here - exact is good enough.:-)
Personally I go ~35miles, to Eurotire in Fairfield NJ (for those who live
in North NJ area), to buy tires because I know I will never have to go back
with balance problems over the life of the tires. Their prices are
actually pretty reasonable considering they do the job right, don't gouge
your wheels *and* they hand torque the wheels - not a bad idea to look for
a shop that advertizes the hand torque, as a sign of diligence.

The mileage you're getting is way beyond anything I'd expect from any tire
- not sure I'd want it either considering the tradeoffs I've seen. Do you
live in an area with roads with a high crown and lots of bumps? That'll
tend to produce scalloping over time; add in weak shocks and it'll happen
quite quickly. Badly worn shocks will cause it on any normal roads.

The push down "bump test" for shocks usually tells you nothing. A better
test is to apply the brakes fairly hard on a rippled/bumpy section of road
- you often find such ripples approaching a traffic light so you'll usually
be braking anyway. Choose the right time to do this of course... when
there's nobody to run into the back of you and approach the traffic light
fairly fast and brake a little late. If you feel the wheels skipping over
the bumps and significant lengthening of stopping distance vs. a smooth
road, your shocks are not up to scratch. At your mileage they're probably
pretty weak by now anyway.

One last thing: check for broken springs on both fronts - right at the last
coil where it enters the shock perch. Jack the car up and listen for doink
sounds as it raises and then look for the breaks.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

> Get someone "qualified" to do the alignment *and* the wheel balance too -
> most tire shops, with the best equipment in the world cannot do the job
> right.

I've driven Civics since 1990 and can't tell you how many times some idiot
with an air wrench has caused brake problem on my car by over-torquing the
lug nuts. I just moved but I look around when I get ready to buy new tires.
Any suggestions for tires (185/65R14) for the car?

> Do you live in an area with roads with a high crown and lots of bumps?

Most (at least 80-85%) of the miles have been highway miles (I-95, I-81,
I-77, etc.) and I've lived in Virginia since getting the 96 Civic. Virginia
doesn't have perfect roads but nothing like the rough roads of New England,
etc.

> One last thing: check for broken springs on both fronts - right at the
last
> coil where it enters the shock perch. Jack the car up and listen for doink
> sounds as it raises and then look for the breaks.

Thanks for the guidance,
Peter

No. Once a tire develops a wear pattern, correcting the problem will not
make the tire wear out evenly. It is too late at that point.

CaptainKrunch


"Dean" <noreply@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message
news:cbuqfv$5f3$1@news01.intel.com...
> > usually when scalloping/cupping happens, its on the rear,
> > where its lighter.
>
> assuming the scalloping only happens on the rear, and you rotated your
tires
> regularly, wouldn't the scalloping get worn even again when they're in the
> front?
>
>
> --
> Disclaimer: This post is solely an individual opinion and does not speak
on
> behalf of any organization.
>
>

I you plan on keeping the car for several more years, I'd upgrade the shocks
with Tokico and the springs with Eibach Pro Kit.

Pars

Mainecooncat1 wrote:

> I've got a 96 Civic EX coupe with 227,500 miles (mostly highway miles).
> After the factory tires (replaced around 65,000 miles) I put four Michelin
> X-One tires on the car and replaced them at about 155,000 miles (90,000 on
> the tires) when the tires has a considerable amount of scalloping/cupping. I
> replaced them with another set of four Michelin X-One tires and after a
> little of 70,000 miles the scalloping/cupping is quite noticeable.
>
> To be clear, the scalloping/cupping appears over the life of the Michelin
> X-One tires and is quite noticeable at certain speeds. I've read that worn
> shocks (worn suspension parts) can cause this type of uneven wear. I know
> tires don't last forever but the wear pattern on two consecutive sets of
> tires has been identical with scalloping/cupping on the inside edge of all
> four tires.
>
> Before I spend another $400 or $500 on a set of four tires, what should I
> ask a repair shop to look for in the suspension. The car consistently checks
> out as in alignment and dealers have told me the suspension is OK. Anyone
> got some ideas, I'm really tired of the tire noise. The car is reasonably
> quiet on new tires but is awfully loud with 70,000 miles on the tires.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter