Honda Car Forum

Any recommendations for replacement struts for a 2001 Accord LX V6?
I'm looking for something like Konis or Bilsteins that will tighten up
and improve the handling, but I don't want to replace springs or lower
the car . . . Thanks!


George
gearlnospamno@nospamcomcast.net

I've already got 150,000km on my Tokico shocks and they're still doing a
good job.

I thought struts were different from shocks and the double wishbone
suspension would requires shocks.

Mixing performance shocks with regular shocks sounds like a bad idea.

Pars
98 DX Hatch

George Earl wrote:

> Any recommendations for replacement struts for a 2001 Accord LX V6?
> I'm looking for something like Konis or Bilsteins that will tighten up
> and improve the handling, but I don't want to replace springs or lower
> the car . . . Thanks!
>
> George
> gearlnospamno@nospamcomcast.net

Shocks, dampers, struts call them what you wish, go bad slowly and may never
leak. That doesn't mean the ride quality isn't diminshing--while still
being safe. After 40-70+K miles replacing the shocks should produce a
noticeable improvement, doing so after 100K miles should produce a
substantial improvement.

PS

"pars" <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40D7AB13.E39C7657@hotmail.com...
> I've already got 150,000km on my Tokico shocks and they're still doing a
> good job.
>
> I thought struts were different from shocks and the double wishbone
> suspension would requires shocks.
>
> Mixing performance shocks with regular shocks sounds like a bad idea.
>
> Pars
> 98 DX Hatch
>
> George Earl wrote:
>
> > Any recommendations for replacement struts for a 2001 Accord LX V6?
> > I'm looking for something like Konis or Bilsteins that will tighten up
> > and improve the handling, but I don't want to replace springs or lower
> > the car . . . Thanks!
> >
> > George
> > gearlnospamno@nospamcomcast.net
>


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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:27:27 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Shocks, dampers, struts call them what you wish, go bad slowly and may never
>leak. That doesn't mean the ride quality isn't diminshing--while still
>being safe. After 40-70+K miles replacing the shocks should produce a
>noticeable improvement, doing so after 100K miles should produce a
>substantial improvement.

Strictly speaking, struts are a different item from shocks/dampers - a
strut is a shock/spring assembly which is a structural part of the
suspension system. E.g. a MacPherson strut acts as the upper suspension
mount, locates it laterally and longitudinally and pivots with the
steering.

IME Honda shocks/dampers can easily last 100K miles and more with little
noticable degradation of ride and damping, unless your roads are unusually
rough. It's one of the benefits of the double wishbone design that the
damper only has to damp and has no side forces on it, as opposed to a strut
which which tends not to last so long.

As for which brand the OP could use to replace OE shocks/dampers with, I've
heard that Konis, even on the soft setting, are often too harsh for anyone
but the real sporty enthusiast - shake your fillings out.:-) KYB GR-2s,
which I used on my '92 Integra, are inexpensive, give a nice smooth ride
over minor irregularities like bridge transitions while still being
reasonably firm on performance - maybe a bit too soft for a sporty ride.
Adjustable would allow tuning for the purpose and personal preferences so
I'd think KYB AGXs or Tokico might be a good choice. Check out www.kyb.com
and http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:28:56 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>As for which brand the OP could use to replace OE shocks/dampers with, . . .
>Adjustable would allow tuning for the purpose and personal preferences so
>I'd think KYB AGXs or Tokico might be a good choice. Check out www.kyb.com
>and http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/.

Thanks, George.



George
gearlnospamno@nospamcomcast.net

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:mivjd09dna95q796a0a6jjjc1astpbuscq@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:27:27 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Shocks, dampers, struts call them what you wish, go bad slowly and may
never
> >leak. That doesn't mean the ride quality isn't diminshing--while still
> >being safe. After 40-70+K miles replacing the shocks should produce a
> >noticeable improvement, doing so after 100K miles should produce a
> >substantial improvement.
>
> Strictly speaking, struts are a different item from shocks/dampers - a
> strut is a shock/spring assembly which is a structural part of the
> suspension system. E.g. a MacPherson strut acts as the upper suspension
> mount, locates it laterally and longitudinally and pivots with the
> steering.

Of course, strictly speaking.

>
> IME Honda shocks/dampers can easily last 100K miles and more with little
> noticable degradation of ride and damping, unless your roads are unusually
> rough. It's one of the benefits of the double wishbone design that the
> damper only has to damp and has no side forces on it, as opposed to a
strut
> which which tends not to last so long.>

I live outside of Chicago and, while we'd like the think that our potholes
are world class, the roads are not unusually rough for the most part. At
about 140K miles, I thought the dampers/shocks on my '91 Accord were in good
shape: no leaking, no bouncing and seemingly normal handling. Nonetheless,
I replaced them and I was amazed at the difference. The ride was instantly
smoother and quieter. I agree that shocks can easily last more than 100K
miles, but what is the definition of "last?" I believe they are wearing
gradually and at any given time the difference in performance is small,
until they cross some arbitrary threshold of acceptance--whatever that may
be for an individual driver. The shops and manufacturers would like us to
replace our shocks at 40-60K miles or so, which is too low--for Accords,
certainly--but I think there is significant ride quality to be regained in
and around 100K.


> As for which brand the OP could use to replace OE shocks/dampers with,
I've
> heard that Konis, even on the soft setting, are often too harsh for anyone
> but the real sporty enthusiast - shake your fillings out.:-) KYB GR-2s,
> which I used on my '92 Integra, are inexpensive, give a nice smooth ride
> over minor irregularities like bridge transitions while still being
> reasonably firm on performance - maybe a bit too soft for a sporty ride.
> Adjustable would allow tuning for the purpose and personal preferences so
> I'd think KYB AGXs or Tokico might be a good choice. Check out
www.kyb.com
> and http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:54:29 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
>news:mivjd09dna95q796a0a6jjjc1astpbuscq@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:27:27 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Shocks, dampers, struts call them what you wish, go bad slowly and may
>never
>> >leak. That doesn't mean the ride quality isn't diminshing--while still
>> >being safe. After 40-70+K miles replacing the shocks should produce a
>> >noticeable improvement, doing so after 100K miles should produce a
>> >substantial improvement.
>>
>> Strictly speaking, struts are a different item from shocks/dampers - a
>> strut is a shock/spring assembly which is a structural part of the
>> suspension system. E.g. a MacPherson strut acts as the upper suspension
>> mount, locates it laterally and longitudinally and pivots with the
>> steering.
>
>Of course, strictly speaking.

Which is how one speaks when wishing to be perfectly clear. IOW before I
said what I said below, I wanted it to be quite clear about what the terms
I would use mean.

>>
>> IME Honda shocks/dampers can easily last 100K miles and more with little
>> noticable degradation of ride and damping, unless your roads are unusually
>> rough. It's one of the benefits of the double wishbone design that the
>> damper only has to damp and has no side forces on it, as opposed to a
>strut
>> which which tends not to last so long.>
>
>I live outside of Chicago and, while we'd like the think that our potholes
>are world class, the roads are not unusually rough for the most part. At
>about 140K miles, I thought the dampers/shocks on my '91 Accord were in good
>shape: no leaking, no bouncing and seemingly normal handling. Nonetheless,
>I replaced them and I was amazed at the difference. The ride was instantly
>smoother and quieter.

Were those Honda shocks from the dealer part dept.? Is it possible they
were made by a different supplier? Shock technology has progressed in the
last 12years, in particular, the calibration of valving to achieve a smooth
ride over minor road irregularities while maintaining good damping in
performance and longer piston stroke.

> I agree that shocks can easily last more than 100K
>miles, but what is the definition of "last?" I believe they are wearing
>gradually and at any given time the difference in performance is small,
>until they cross some arbitrary threshold of acceptance--whatever that may
>be for an individual driver. The shops and manufacturers would like us to
>replace our shocks at 40-60K miles or so, which is too low--for Accords,
>certainly--but I think there is significant ride quality to be regained in
>and around 100K.

I changed front shocks and springs on a '92 Integra at ~105K miles. Both
springs were broken so it's hard to compare but trying to recall the "feel"
pre-broken spring, I was certainly not bowled over by some transformation
of the car's handling or ride. I think we agree that your mention of
40K-70K might be applicable to a strut suspension but does not correspond
to my experience with the Honda DW design nor that of others who have
posted similar experiences to mine. Here I see 100K miles as an expected
minimum life.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Gee, I guess it's just me... but expensive strut replacements have
been the bane of my front-wheel-drive life.

My '90 Integra's struts were definitely below par at 60,000 miles. I
didn't want to mess with it and was tired of the car, so bought an
I30t. The Infiniti's struts were fading after only 25,000 miles, and
by 40,000 I began to hate the car. I had to replace all 4 at 51,000
(out of warranty, time-wise) with KYB GR-2's. There were problems and
the front end was torn down 2 more times to diagnose and eventually
fix new but bad strut bearings.

It seems like you can save on fuel costs over several years with
efficient front drivers, then the mechanic takes all that with
"excessive" strut replacement charges. It was nearly enough to sway
me to the G35, a rear-drive, although I just bought an '04 Accord as a
weekend car.

My KYB GR-2's are going strong with 48,000 miles on them. They are
90+ per cent as good as new. Slightly more firm when new than most
stock struts, they still won't be confused with performance equipment.

JM

On 25 Jun 2004 09:09:49 -0700, jmattis@attglobal.net (JM) wrote:

>Gee, I guess it's just me... but expensive strut replacements have
>been the bane of my front-wheel-drive life.
>
>My '90 Integra's struts were definitely below par at 60,000 miles. I
>didn't want to mess with it and was tired of the car, so bought an
>I30t. The Infiniti's struts were fading after only 25,000 miles, and
>by 40,000 I began to hate the car. I had to replace all 4 at 51,000
>(out of warranty, time-wise) with KYB GR-2's. There were problems and
>the front end was torn down 2 more times to diagnose and eventually
>fix new but bad strut bearings.

Oh dear, the terminology's gone all half-baked again.:-( I'm surprised
that your Integra's shocks/dampers went bad so early - mine definitely did
not and other Hondas I've owned with the DW suspension have lasted well
past 100K miles too.

Is it something to do with the roads where you drive?... around here
they're not great and deteriorating fast right now but have not been bad
enough to cause what you describe. Our Toyota Camry, obvously with a strut
front suspension was a different story - front shocks leaked a bit at ~50K
miles and were shot at 70K.

Replacing the shocks/dampers on a Honda DW is an easy (should be) low cost
job, especially with a hydraulic spring compressor - 10mins to get the
shock/spring assembly out. 1/2hr each side plus maybe a few mins for
clean-up, for a competent mechanic... plus parts, so it should never come
close to the cost of a MacPherson strut replacement. A DIYer, with lesser
tools will take longer of course.

You just highlighted another of the banes of the MacPherson strut
suspension - the upper bearing. They usually have a rubber boot to protect
the bearing, which does not stand up well to the "environment" it lives in.

>It seems like you can save on fuel costs over several years with
>efficient front drivers, then the mechanic takes all that with
>"excessive" strut replacement charges. It was nearly enough to sway
>me to the G35, a rear-drive, although I just bought an '04 Accord as a
>weekend car.

There isn't enough difference between a FF and FR drive to make that much
difference to shock/damper wear - bad designs wear quickly on both. The
small additional weight of the differential shouldn't make much difference.
Again, with the DW design, the shocks/dampers are not affected by the
drivetrain stresses and again, the strut falls down. Frankly, MacPherson
strut + FWD is just a cock-up... and yet........

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:hlfmd0pmcg06nshole918l5v3t842nja51@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:54:29 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in
message
> >news:mivjd09dna95q796a0a6jjjc1astpbuscq@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:27:27 GMT, "ps" <NOpshMorEuSpam001@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Shocks, dampers, struts call them what you wish, go bad slowly and may
> >never
> >> >leak. That doesn't mean the ride quality isn't diminshing--while
still
> >> >being safe. After 40-70+K miles replacing the shocks should produce a
> >> >noticeable improvement, doing so after 100K miles should produce a
> >> >substantial improvement.
> >>
> >> Strictly speaking, struts are a different item from shocks/dampers - a
> >> strut is a shock/spring assembly which is a structural part of the
> >> suspension system. E.g. a MacPherson strut acts as the upper
suspension
> >> mount, locates it laterally and longitudinally and pivots with the
> >> steering.
> >
> >Of course, strictly speaking.
>
> Which is how one speaks when wishing to be perfectly clear. IOW before I
> said what I said below, I wanted it to be quite clear about what the terms
> I would use mean.
>

Point taken

> >>
> >> IME Honda shocks/dampers can easily last 100K miles and more with
little
> >> noticable degradation of ride and damping, unless your roads are
unusually
> >> rough. It's one of the benefits of the double wishbone design that the
> >> damper only has to damp and has no side forces on it, as opposed to a
> >strut
> >> which which tends not to last so long.>

Absolutely, the double wishbone geometry has its benefits. I only speak
from my (limited) experience: my dampers must have worn slowly and I could
only appreciate how great the difference was when they were replaced. I say
replace the dampers at or about 80-100K miles and enjoy the difference
whatever it may be as opposed to waiting 1-2 yrs and squeezing the very last
15-20% of average or below, but tolerable performance, out of them. Yah,
your're right, 40K miles on an Accord is too low. Kinda like the the
2500-3000 mile oil change interval, IMO--with the exception of all very
short trip drivers. Good for the vendors, bad for the consumer.

> >
> >I live outside of Chicago and, while we'd like the think that our
potholes
> >are world class, the roads are not unusually rough for the most part. At
> >about 140K miles, I thought the dampers/shocks on my '91 Accord were in
good
> >shape: no leaking, no bouncing and seemingly normal handling.
Nonetheless,
> >I replaced them and I was amazed at the difference. The ride was
instantly
> >smoother and quieter.
>
> Were those Honda shocks from the dealer part dept.? Is it possible they
> were made by a different supplier? Shock technology has progressed in the
> last 12years, in particular, the calibration of valving to achieve a
smooth
> ride over minor road irregularities while maintaining good damping in
> performance and longer piston stroke.
>

Are you asking what were the make of the replacement shocks? They weren't
OEM; Monroe Sensamatics--which have been good for about the last 2 years,
but tires notwithstanding, seem to be getting a little rougher and producing
a noiser ride. If I have to go it again, I think I'll spend more and get
KYB's.

Just a guess, but I'll bet that shocks from the Honda parts system are
spec'd for a given model year(s) and are pretty much the same as the
originals. Unless the dimensions match up exactly with a later model year,
in which case a substitution might be likely; part #'s should give that
away.

> > I agree that shocks can easily last more than 100K
> >miles, but what is the definition of "last?" I believe they are wearing
> >gradually and at any given time the difference in performance is small,
> >until they cross some arbitrary threshold of acceptance--whatever that
may
> >be for an individual driver. The shops and manufacturers would like us
to
> >replace our shocks at 40-60K miles or so, which is too low--for Accords,
> >certainly--but I think there is significant ride quality to be regained
in
> >and around 100K.
>
> I changed front shocks and springs on a '92 Integra at ~105K miles. Both
> springs were broken so it's hard to compare but trying to recall the
"feel"
> pre-broken spring, I was certainly not bowled over by some transformation
> of the car's handling or ride. I think we agree that your mention of
> 40K-70K might be applicable to a strut suspension but does not correspond
> to my experience with the Honda DW design nor that of others who have
> posted similar experiences to mine. Here I see 100K miles as an expected
> minimum life.

Don't you just love those wimpy Honda springs?

Always appreciate your thoughtful responses to the posts in this group.

Regards, Peter

>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??
>