Honda Car Forum

On 8 Jun 2004 14:17:14 GMT, "Tegger®"
<teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

>"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> spake unto the
>masses in news:Xns950250D76DCE2teggeratistop@207.14.113.17:
>
>> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> spake unto the
>> masses in news:k7fac0l8u597macimt5j9a4flv89khf3j7@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> The only way I've heard of the distributor to go bad, usually on
>>> 90-93 or so models is that shaft bearing seal goes bad and when you
>>> take the distributor cap off there's red dust everywhere from the
>>> corrosion of the bearing. The only other thing about a distributor
>>> which can go bad is the oil seal at the base which allows oil to leak
>>> inside the body.
>>
>>
>>
>> What can also happen is water leaks when people remove the distributor
>> cap to "check" the rotor and cap.
>
>
>
>
>Looks like I contributed to some "Internet wisdom" myself in this thread.
>
>Out of curiosity, and so as not to spread misinformation any further, I
>called my Japanese mechanic, who has run his own shop for some 24 years.

So your mechanic is now contributing to err, Internet umm, wisdom... by
proxy??:-)

>He says water leaks have absolutely nothing to do with distributor bearing
>failure. It's simply ozone (see below) and bearing fatigue, and he sees it
>all the time.

It's the seal! This has been discussed here umpteen times dating back
nearly a decade by R. Morella et.al. R.M. was the one who found the
bearing source and replaced just that... saving the cost of a new housing:
http://techauto.tripod.com/distributorexploded.htm.

>First symptom:
>Slight "chirping" noise from distributor that does NOT resemble a loose
>drive belt.
>
>Second symptom:
>Metal shavings from failing bearing short out electrical parts inside
>distributor, resulting in Check Engine light coming on
>
>Third symptom:
>Bearing distintegrates. Distributor shaft snaps. Car stops.
>
>All this happens within a day or so. Symptoms two and three happen within
>minutes of each other.

I have direct experience here and the red dust can be present for months
before you get even any audible signs. In my case I had no noises at all
and just decided it would be a good idea to change the cap/rotor and found
red dust everywhere - took me another week to get the new housing and get
it installed - still no noises or MIL.

>The valves and camshaft will NOT be damaged. Any damage is restricted to
>the distributor assembly, which is about $550 Canadian, complete with
>wires, cap and rotor.

I think you'd better take a closer look at the distributor drive mechanism
- it's pretty sturdy and an instant bearing lock is going to get
transmitted to the timing belt, which will likely try to jump a
tooth/teeth.... which can result in belt breakage and valve damage.

>ALSO:
>
>Out of curiosity, I asked about the "red dust" phenomenon. The "red dust"
>you mention earlier has to do with ozone.

It's rust from the bearing which has a compromised seal. Ozone, damp air,
whatever... oxygen and damp is fine as an oxidising agent for steel - ozone
could accelerate it I suppose... the point is the bearing is not sealed off
as it should be.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

caroline10027remove@earthlink.net (Caroline) wrote:

>>Now I do all my own distributor work.

>you are definately the coolest chick on
>this newsgroup

>>Take credit. * ;-)
>>(But am I the only chick here?)

While I'm a pretty cool chick, I'm not as cool as you, Caroline. How do
you keep your finger nails white and not black?!

ravelation wrote
SoCalMike wrote
Caroline wrote
>>Now I do all my own distributor work.

>you are definately the coolest chick on
>this newsgroup

>>Take credit. ;-)
>>(But am I the only chick here?)

> While I'm a pretty cool chick, I'm not as cool as you, Caroline.

Hey there. I knew there were other chicks here. Anyone who works on cars with
enthusiasm is way cool. :-)

> How do you keep your finger nails white and not black?!

Ha ha... I am definitely paying more attention to my hands these days. I think
"PB Blaster" and radiator coolant in particular are doing a number on them.

For minor jobs, preferentially I wear (powdered) latex gloves. Wal-Mart
sells a large box of them for around $4. For major jobs I've found the latex
gloves tear quickly and there's not much point in bothering with them. Sometimes
I wear cloth work gloves, like when rotating the tires.

After working on my car, I now use Gojo Creme Hand Cleaner first, sometimes
followed by "Fast Orange" hand cleaner. Both are inexpensive and well worth it.

Gojo cleans well and seems to moisturize better, but it smells like petroleum
distillates (wonder why :-) ). "Fast Orange" cleans well and smells good, but it
also seems to dry out my hands.

Then I go at my nails with the proper nail files. Lastly, I use expensive hand
lotion (currently Gold Bond Body Lotion). The cheap stuff does not do the trick.

If I'm lucky in three days my nails are thoroughly clean. :-)

What kind of Honda do you have? What sort of work do you do on it?

caroline10027remove@earthlink.net (Caroline) wrote:

>What kind of Honda do you have?

It's my son who has a '99 Honda Civic EX coupe.

>What sort of work do you do on it?

I pay insurance and believe me, that's work for *that* car with a 17
year old driver!! Seriously, I don't do maintenance any more. I've
always had a love of cars that I got from my dad. I'm far more
superficial than you about my car knowledge. I'm more of the 'know a lot
about nothing' kind of chicks.

Rock on, Caroline!

"ravelation" <ravelation@webtv.net> wrote
> caroline10027remove@earthlink.net (Caroline) wrote:
> >What kind of Honda do you have?
>
> It's my son who has a '99 Honda Civic EX coupe.
>
> >What sort of work do you do on it?
>
> I pay insurance and believe me, that's work for *that* car with a 17
> year old driver!!

lol. I bet.

I remember you now from the other month. :-)

> Seriously, I don't do maintenance any more.

Anymore, huh...

;-)

I noticed the Car Talk guys are getting more calls from women doing their own
oil changes these days.

> I've
> always had a love of cars that I got from my dad. I'm far more
> superficial than you about my car knowledge. I'm more of the 'know a lot
> about nothing' kind of chicks.

But you're lurking here just because, eh... ;-)

I am a kitten for most anything outside the engine. Constant velocity joints,
clutches, struts, turning rotors... wha? where?

Think I'm gonna take a comm. college class next year in one of these topics.

> Rock on, Caroline!

You too! :-)

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<k7fac0l8u597macimt5j9a4flv89khf3j7@4ax.com>. ..
>
> The only way I've heard of the distributor to go bad, usually on 90-93 or
> so models is that shaft bearing seal goes bad and when you take the
> distributor cap off there's red dust everywhere from the corrosion of the
> bearing
> [...]
> Rgds, George Macdonald

Good information from you and from Tegger in the following post (my
dealership mechanic described similar failure symptoms as outlined).

Perhaps posted many times, but for the thread starter there was a
general recall for the distributor part described above for all '90 to
'92 Accords and most early '93 which was extended for six years from
the date of sale. (I inquired about it at the dealership and
apparently the recall was effective for all such cars in southern U.S.
regions but only for those which showed signs of failure in the
nothern regions--supposedly the wear is exacerbated by heat and
humidity.)

In checking the Technical Service Bulletins, there was no such recall
for any model of the '95 Civic.

||For minor jobs, preferentially I wear (powdered) latex gloves. Wal-Mart
||sells a large box of them for around $4. For major jobs I've found the latex
||gloves tear quickly and there's not much point in bothering with them.
Sometimes

Try the blue nitrile gloves. they last longer, don't tear as easily.
Also, Permatex and probably others make a ticker latex glove.
There are also some good knock-offs of the Mechanix Wear gloves out there for
under $10. Permatex among others.

||After working on my car, I now use Gojo Creme Hand Cleaner first, sometimes
||followed by "Fast Orange" hand cleaner. Both are inexpensive and well worth
it.

If it's available in your area, try some Joe's Hand Cleaner. Works great, smells
nice.
Texas Parts Guy

"Rex B" <NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net> wrote
C wrote
> ||For minor jobs, preferentially I wear (powdered) latex gloves. Wal-Mart
> ||sells a large box of them for around $4. For major jobs I've found the latex
> ||gloves tear quickly and there's not much point in bothering with them.
> Sometimes
>
> Try the blue nitrile gloves. they last longer, don't tear as easily.
> Also, Permatex and probably others make a ticker latex glove.
> There are also some good knock-offs of the Mechanix Wear gloves out there for
> under $10. Permatex among others.

The thicker gloves last longer, but I presume I will pay more. Seems like I'm
about as well off with the thin, inexpensive gloves, changing often.
>
> ||After working on my car, I now use Gojo Creme Hand Cleaner first, sometimes
> ||followed by "Fast Orange" hand cleaner. Both are inexpensive and well worth
> it.
>
> If it's available in your area, try some Joe's Hand Cleaner. Works great,
smells
> nice.

If the price is right, I'll give it a whirl. Thanks, Rex.

I recall lots of postings here about distributors going bad over the
years. Maybe you can google them up. Things like bearings going bad,
etc. Spit, sputter, knock like you describe is more often the sign of
a fuel problem. Electrical problems tend to be all or nothing. Of
course, that's a generalization that is not always true, but it's a
first cut at diagnosis.

"MrBlues" <mrblues@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<NM7xc.928$ar.328@attbi_s04>...
> The place that I had it towed to said their diagnosis was that it was the
> distributor. So they replaced it, and while driving it home, it started to
> spit, sputter and knock before finally dying. So I immediately called them
> and said what happened, well they are coming to tow it back and start over.
> My curiosity has got me now, if it is the same problem, then they didn't
> properly diagnose it and that replacing the distributor wasn't necessary and
> my thinking is that if that's the case, then I shouldn't have to pay for the
> repairs that are going to be done to fix the problem, considering I have
> spent $400.00 on it and it isn't right....any opinions?
>
> Steve
> "TCS" <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote in message
> news:slrncc9lrc.ehu.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net...
> > On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:36:35 GMT, MrBlues <mrblues@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >A distributor go bad on a 95 civic? car ran fine then went to start it
> and
> > >wouldn't start, turned over and all but no fire. had it towed to a garage
> > >and they said its the distributor, the civic has like 88 k on it. just
> > >wondering if this is common or a preview of more things to come
> >
> > Unless the shaft breaks in two, or the bearings jam in which case your
> timing
> > belt will slip and destroy half your valve train, there's not much that
> > can go wrong with a distributor.
> >
> > The parts that go inside or on the distribrutor, on the other hand, can
> and
> > often fail: position sensor, ignitor, coil, rotor, cap.
> >
> > Saying "it's the distributor" is like saying "it's the engine". Fine.
> Fix
> > the damn thing, don't replace the entire unit.
>
>
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"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<HQ8xc.25376$Tn6.24389@newsread1.news.pas.ear thlink.net>...
> I agree with TCS that usually the whole distributor does not have to be
> replaced. I suggest you take a quick peak at http://tinyurl.com/3dvaz . It shows
> the distributor for a 95 Civic LX, auto trans. Maybe print this out and take it
> to the shop with you. I'd say the most common distributor failure items are as
> follows:
>
> 1. igniter unit assembly (a.k.a. "igniter" or "ignitor" or "ignition module"),
> item 9.
> 2. coil assembly, ignition (a.k.a. "coil"), item 12
> 3. distributor cap, item 2
> 4. distributor housing (typically the bearings go? red dust in the cap is a
> symptom?), item 4
> 5. distributor rotor, item 3
>
> Ordinarily, only one of these should have been replaced, and the part name
> should appear on your bill, along with the labor charge.
>
> Ask the shop:
>
> 1. Which parts in the drawing were replaced?
> 2. What was the charge for each part, not counting labor?
> 3. How much labor time were you billed for, in hours?
>
> Given the bill you received, most likely, they will claim either the ignitor,
> coil, or housing was replaced.
>
> So far, yes, it looks like you should not have to pay anything more.
>
> I am a 1991 Civic owner, 153k miles. I've had the ignitor fail once (at 91k
> miles and six years) and the coil failed two or three times (at something over
> 100k miles, IIRC). The early 1990s Civic ignitors had some kind of flaw, and an
> official Honda recall (or similar) was put out on them. I doubt the 1995 Civics
> have the same problem with ignitors. Failing distributor coils are a common
> problem in all cars. Coils don't usually completely die. That is, with a coil
> that is almost dead, the car may stall and will not re-start right away. Then an
> hour later it will start again. IIRC, ignitors tend to fail completely--no
> start, no how. That's what I remember when my ignitor failed. Two years ago my
> car's distributor rotor kept coming off the distributor shaft. Ultimately, I,
> not the stupid dealer service department, figured out that the screw hole that
> held it in place had become stripped. After a lot of incompetence from a few
> shops, I ended up with a new housing (which I may not have needed--I had a jury
> rig fix which the shop said was the problem), because the rotor screw hole was
> stripped. The shop transferred the old ignitor and old coil to the new housing,
> as the ignitor and coil are expensive parts and there's no reason not to
> transplant them.

With the 92-97, maybe later engines I don't know, the coil is inside
the distributor cap, which raises the price of it to $50. What happens
is that when the cap cracks, it becomes even more sensitive to
moisture than when a normal cap cracks, and won't start on wet days
because the moisture is actually getting into the coil as well as the
distributor. So whereas in the past you'd have bought a new cap for
$5, now you end up buying a new coil when the cap cracks.