Honda Car Forum

What is the anticipated life of a master cylinder for a CRV?

"Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
news:4088e434$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:

> What is the anticipated life of a master cylinder for a CRV?
>
>
>


Just about forever, provided you either:
1) Flush the fluid annually (from new) using the pedal-pump method,
or
2) Flush the fluid annually at any point in a car's life using a Mity-Vac
or other non-pedal method.

Nothing kills the master cylinder seals faster than neglect. Except for
neglect combined with a belated effort to change the fluid using the pedal-
pump method.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

A Honda service company in Australia is stating 90% of CRV brake master
cylinders fail by 80,000 kilometres and require renewal at the 80,000
kilometre service - at a cost of araound A$600. Normal service cost is about
A800 which is not so bad but an additional hit of A$600 is a bit over the
top.

Who knows what the accident contribution rate is before 80,000 kilometres or
later for those individuals who might use other service arrangements and are
not aware of the possibility of this occuring..

Any comments on this happening elsewhere in the Honda world or for that
matter any any other cars as I have never come across anything similar in
other cars nor in the previous two Hondas - even over ten years !!

Have there been internal safety bulletins on the subject of brake master
cylinders?

Look forward to reading any future posts on this topic as - if true - there
may well be a much deeper issue involved.



"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns94D46938E2780teggeratistop@207.14.113.17.. .
> "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
> news:4088e434$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:
>
> > What is the anticipated life of a master cylinder for a CRV?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Just about forever, provided you either:
> 1) Flush the fluid annually (from new) using the pedal-pump method,
> or
> 2) Flush the fluid annually at any point in a car's life using a Mity-Vac
> or other non-pedal method.
>
> Nothing kills the master cylinder seals faster than neglect. Except for
> neglect combined with a belated effort to change the fluid using the
pedal-
> pump method.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda FAQ
> http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html
>
> How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
> www.google.com
> www.groups.google.com

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:59:16 +1000, "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>A Honda service company in Australia is stating 90% of CRV brake master
>cylinders fail by 80,000 kilometres and require renewal at the 80,000
>kilometre service - at a cost of araound A$600. Normal service cost is about
>A800 which is not so bad but an additional hit of A$600 is a bit over the
>top.

Considering that's just 4K or so miles past the recommended first service
interval (or 3years) for replacing the brake fluid, seems a bit odd. What
do you mean by "a Honda service company" - dealer?

>Who knows what the accident contribution rate is before 80,000 kilometres or
>later for those individuals who might use other service arrangements and are
>not aware of the possibility of this occuring..

It'd be unusual IMO for a deteriorating master cylinder to result in
catastrophic failure without there being some signs that things were not
well. At worst one of the two circuits would go bad resulting in a "long"
pedal.

>Any comments on this happening elsewhere in the Honda world or for that
>matter any any other cars as I have never come across anything similar in
>other cars nor in the previous two Hondas - even over ten years !!
>
>Have there been internal safety bulletins on the subject of brake master
>cylinders?

There's nothing at
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr.../tsbsearch.cfm that I see.

>Look forward to reading any future posts on this topic as - if true - there
>may well be a much deeper issue involved.

I don't recall it ever being discussed here - sounds like maybe just
another gouging dealer, though I agree with Tegger that 45K miles/3years is
too long to leave brake fluid in.

>
>"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message
>news:Xns94D46938E2780teggeratistop@207.14.113.17. ..
>> "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
>> news:4088e434$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:
>>
>> > What is the anticipated life of a master cylinder for a CRV?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Just about forever, provided you either:
>> 1) Flush the fluid annually (from new) using the pedal-pump method,
>> or
>> 2) Flush the fluid annually at any point in a car's life using a Mity-Vac
>> or other non-pedal method.
>>
>> Nothing kills the master cylinder seals faster than neglect. Except for
>> neglect combined with a belated effort to change the fluid using the
>pedal-
>> pump method.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
news:408b53f6$0$4548$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au :

> A Honda service company in Australia is stating 90% of CRV brake
> master cylinders fail by 80,000 kilometres and require renewal at the
> 80,000 kilometre service



I suspect there's a bit more to this claim than what's quoted here. Please
name your source.

Other than for mechanical defects or after many years of inactivity, I have
never seen any master cylinder from any manufacturer go bad after such low
mileage.



> Who knows what the accident contribution rate is before 80,000
> kilometres or later for those individuals who might use other service
> arrangements and are not aware of the possibility of this occuring..



Even brakes that leak severely will provide adequate braking for a short
while combined with enough warning signs to make most of even the densest
motorists want do something about it.

--
TeGGeR®


How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

The source is the Sydney (Australia) based Honda service company I have
been using for ten years. They advised when checking the car in that by
80,000 kilometres nine out of ten brake master cylinders REQUIRE replacement
due to scoring and - their term - "rust spots". I have complained to them
that I have never heard of such a requirement at soch a low operaing time -
they were emphatic and if fact ended up changing it out without prior
authorisation which we had agreed that morning.
It is more than interesting to read the responses which I intend to discuss
further with the service company and Honda.

Thanks

"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns94D69D0E5AED8teggeratistop@207.14.113.17.. .
> "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
> news:408b53f6$0$4548$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au :
>
> > A Honda service company in Australia is stating 90% of CRV brake
> > master cylinders fail by 80,000 kilometres and require renewal at the
> > 80,000 kilometre service
>
>
>
> I suspect there's a bit more to this claim than what's quoted here. Please
> name your source.
>
> Other than for mechanical defects or after many years of inactivity, I
have
> never seen any master cylinder from any manufacturer go bad after such low
> mileage.
>
>
>
> > Who knows what the accident contribution rate is before 80,000
> > kilometres or later for those individuals who might use other service
> > arrangements and are not aware of the possibility of this occuring..
>
>
>
> Even brakes that leak severely will provide adequate braking for a short
> while combined with enough warning signs to make most of even the densest
> motorists want do something about it.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
>
> How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
> www.google.com
> www.groups.google.com

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:00:23 +1000, "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>The source is the Sydney (Australia) based Honda service company I have
>been using for ten years. They advised when checking the car in that by
>80,000 kilometres nine out of ten brake master cylinders REQUIRE replacement
>due to scoring and - their term - "rust spots". I have complained to them
>that I have never heard of such a requirement at soch a low operaing time -
>they were emphatic and if fact ended up changing it out without prior
>authorisation which we had agreed that morning.
>It is more than interesting to read the responses which I intend to discuss
>further with the service company and Honda.

Ask for them to turn over any used, replaced parts to you with the return
of the car. That's "standard procedure" here and helps keep dealers'
service honest - I've even seen where a dealer service dept. would give me
back a replaced part if it had been an unanticipated part of a job, without
me even having to ask.

I'd sure like to see that master cylinder they replaced. If there's no
dirt, the cylinder bore does not score and there is no iron/steel in there
to "rust" - it's all aluminum, which can of course corrode if moisture gets
in there. That's why we have to flush and replace the brake fluid.

I must say I'm curious why they focus on the master cylibder here - there
are any number of other parts which are just as likely to need early
replacement and which might even be more plausible.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

I have a master cylinder they say is defective. It was immediately handed
over when I asked for the parts they replaced although I have to say they
were very quick to provide it when asked. It is still completely assembled
and seems, repeat seems, to have not been opened up at all.

I am sending it off to an independent company for a condition report and
intend taking the issue further once I have the report.

It sure is aluminium which places serious credibility on them when they give
as part of the reason for all the other replacements (and by inference this
one) that there are "rust spots".

My entire view of Honda and their service agents (particularly one of them
at least) is going down the drain rapidly.

Will post when I get the independant report.

Regards,

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:g2go80t6po9jkjqbg69a0ql20llaspma72@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:00:23 +1000, "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >The source is the Sydney (Australia) based Honda service company I have
> >been using for ten years. They advised when checking the car in that by
> >80,000 kilometres nine out of ten brake master cylinders REQUIRE
replacement
> >due to scoring and - their term - "rust spots". I have complained to them
> >that I have never heard of such a requirement at soch a low operaing
time -
> >they were emphatic and if fact ended up changing it out without prior
> >authorisation which we had agreed that morning.
> >It is more than interesting to read the responses which I intend to
discuss
> >further with the service company and Honda.
>
> Ask for them to turn over any used, replaced parts to you with the return
> of the car. That's "standard procedure" here and helps keep dealers'
> service honest - I've even seen where a dealer service dept. would give me
> back a replaced part if it had been an unanticipated part of a job,
without
> me even having to ask.
>
> I'd sure like to see that master cylinder they replaced. If there's no
> dirt, the cylinder bore does not score and there is no iron/steel in there
> to "rust" - it's all aluminum, which can of course corrode if moisture
gets
> in there. That's why we have to flush and replace the brake fluid.
>
> I must say I'm curious why they focus on the master cylibder here - there
> are any number of other parts which are just as likely to need early
> replacement and which might even be more plausible.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

> It sure is aluminium which places serious credibility on them when they
give
> as part of the reason for all the other replacements (and by inference
this
> one) that there are "rust spots".

maybe they meant "pitting"? dunno. aluminum does pit, doesnt it?

The Honda dealer in San Antonio, Texas wants to replace my master
cylinder after 17,000 miles (2002 CR-V) due to excessive pedal fade.
It is currently on order and I will have the work done this month.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:59:16 +1000, "Richard"
<rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

|A Honda service company in Australia is stating 90% of CRV brake master
|cylinders fail by 80,000 kilometres and require renewal at the 80,000
|kilometre service - at a cost of araound A$600. Normal service cost is about
|A800 which is not so bad but an additional hit of A$600 is a bit over the
|top.
|
|Who knows what the accident contribution rate is before 80,000 kilometres or
|later for those individuals who might use other service arrangements and are
|not aware of the possibility of this occuring..
|
|Any comments on this happening elsewhere in the Honda world or for that
|matter any any other cars as I have never come across anything similar in
|other cars nor in the previous two Hondas - even over ten years !!
|
|Have there been internal safety bulletins on the subject of brake master
|cylinders?
|
|Look forward to reading any future posts on this topic as - if true - there
|may well be a much deeper issue involved.
|
|
|
|"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message
|news:Xns94D46938E2780teggeratistop@207.14.113.17. ..
|> "Richard" <rgmcdonald@optusnet.com.au> spake unto the masses in
|> news:4088e434$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:
|>
|> > What is the anticipated life of a master cylinder for a CRV?
|> >
|> >
|> >
|>
|>
|> Just about forever, provided you either:
|> 1) Flush the fluid annually (from new) using the pedal-pump method,
|> or
|> 2) Flush the fluid annually at any point in a car's life using a Mity-Vac
|> or other non-pedal method.
|>
|> Nothing kills the master cylinder seals faster than neglect. Except for
|> neglect combined with a belated effort to change the fluid using the
|pedal-
|> pump method.
|>
|> --
|> TeGGeR®
|>
|> The Unofficial Honda FAQ
|> http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html
|>
|> How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
|> www.google.com
|> www.groups.google.com
|
|