Honda Car Forum

I'm curious, in your experience, what life would you expect out of the
original Honda Catalytic Converter?

More specifically, here's my background FYI:
1998 Accord V6 with 145000 miles, half freeway, half stop-and-go driving
everyday for two hours total a day.

Recently, the MIL was on with 3 codes:
P0401(67) - EGR Insufficient Flow Detected
?????(90) - EVAP Control System Leakage
-Two codes transpose to (90).
P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold

I had the local Honda dealership perform the EGR port clean for free under
the past recall. But that night after the service, I received P0420 again.
I returned to Honda hoping I could find another item under warranty, but no
luck.

I've been told that I need a new catalytic converter. Obviously, I
questioned them as to how they arrived at their conclusion, confronting them
about checking more than just the MIL, e.g. exhaust manifold pressure, etc.
The response was that it was not necessary, and the computer only test was
very accurate.

I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

> I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
> but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
> 145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.

i wouldnt call it "well past" but its in the ballpark. for the evap control
leak problem, id try a new honda gas cap.

My 92 Civic with 179k miles still passed dyno test in SoCal. 2nd 92 passed 2
years ago. They still have original cats. I read in the Registers a few years
back that 50% of the cat would be no good after 40k miles.

SR-71 wrote:

> I'm curious, in your experience, what life would you expect out of the
> original Honda Catalytic Converter?
>
> More specifically, here's my background FYI:
> 1998 Accord V6 with 145000 miles, half freeway, half stop-and-go driving
> everyday for two hours total a day.
>
> Recently, the MIL was on with 3 codes:
> P0401(67) - EGR Insufficient Flow Detected
> ?????(90) - EVAP Control System Leakage
> -Two codes transpose to (90).
> P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
>
> I had the local Honda dealership perform the EGR port clean for free under
> the past recall. But that night after the service, I received P0420 again.
> I returned to Honda hoping I could find another item under warranty, but no
> luck.
>
> I've been told that I need a new catalytic converter. Obviously, I
> questioned them as to how they arrived at their conclusion, confronting them
> about checking more than just the MIL, e.g. exhaust manifold pressure, etc.
> The response was that it was not necessary, and the computer only test was
> very accurate.
>
> I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
> but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
> 145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance.

SR-71 wrote:
> I'm curious, in your experience, what life would you expect out of the
> original Honda Catalytic Converter?
>
> More specifically, here's my background FYI:
> 1998 Accord V6 with 145000 miles, half freeway, half stop-and-go driving
> everyday for two hours total a day.
>
> Recently, the MIL was on with 3 codes:
> P0401(67) - EGR Insufficient Flow Detected
> ?????(90) - EVAP Control System Leakage
> -Two codes transpose to (90).
> P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
>
> I had the local Honda dealership perform the EGR port clean for free under
> the past recall. But that night after the service, I received P0420 again.
> I returned to Honda hoping I could find another item under warranty, but no
> luck.
>
> I've been told that I need a new catalytic converter. Obviously, I
> questioned them as to how they arrived at their conclusion, confronting them
> about checking more than just the MIL, e.g. exhaust manifold pressure, etc.
> The response was that it was not necessary, and the computer only test was
> very accurate.
>
> I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
> but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
> 145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> ====================

I'd try a different brand of gas for a while, and be carefull not to
'top-up'. It's not old enough to be having vacuum hose leaks, unless
dealer forgot to reconnect something.

PCV may need to be changed. Do that one yourself. Mileage may improve
too. With all that mileage, it would be a good idea to track your fuel
consumption.

'Curly'

"mike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<PJzec.20508$_K3.54257@attbi_s53>...
> > I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
> > but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
> > 145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.
>
> i wouldnt call it "well past" but its in the ballpark. for the evap control
> leak problem, id try a new honda gas cap.

it's common on these. but the federally mandated warranty is 8 years
80,000 miles. just buy a converter and be done with it. it's just age
and normal catalyst deterioration. how long would you expect it to
last??
Chip

The cat on my '99 Accord V6 died (MIL) at about 83,000 miles around a
month and a half ago. The dealer service rep swore that the front and
rear O2 sensors tested fine, but the cat needed to be replaced for
about $860 including labor. 3500 miles later, I have had no problems.
Mileage on the car has never fluctuated an appreciable amount. He
also told me that they have seen them go on 6th gen Accords anywhere
between 40k and 120k, but 80k was about average. Not exactly
acceptable in my book since I have driven several cars well over 125k
without a single failed emissions test, and the Accord nearly failed
last October. Live and learn, I suppose, but this combined with my
tranny issues sorta leaves Honda out of the running for my next car.

-James

SR-71 wrote:

> I'm curious, in your experience, what life would you expect out of the
> original Honda Catalytic Converter?
>
> More specifically, here's my background FYI:
> 1998 Accord V6 with 145000 miles, half freeway, half stop-and-go driving
> everyday for two hours total a day.
>
> Recently, the MIL was on with 3 codes:
> P0401(67) - EGR Insufficient Flow Detected
> ?????(90) - EVAP Control System Leakage
> -Two codes transpose to (90).
> P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
>

Blown EGR and/or dying O2 sensor can easily stress the
cat to where it dies an early death. Instead of getting
10-12 years out of it or more, you get maybe half that.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:08:31 -0400, "SR-71" <sr71@rous.com> wrote:

>I'm curious, in your experience, what life would you expect out of the
>original Honda Catalytic Converter?
>
>More specifically, here's my background FYI:
>1998 Accord V6 with 145000 miles, half freeway, half stop-and-go driving
>everyday for two hours total a day.
>
>Recently, the MIL was on with 3 codes:
>P0401(67) - EGR Insufficient Flow Detected
>?????(90) - EVAP Control System Leakage
> -Two codes transpose to (90).
>P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
>
>I had the local Honda dealership perform the EGR port clean for free under
>the past recall. But that night after the service, I received P0420 again.
>I returned to Honda hoping I could find another item under warranty, but no
>luck.
>
>I've been told that I need a new catalytic converter. Obviously, I
>questioned them as to how they arrived at their conclusion, confronting them
>about checking more than just the MIL, e.g. exhaust manifold pressure, etc.
>The response was that it was not necessary, and the computer only test was
>very accurate.
>
>I do plan on doing plenty of testing myself before buying a new converter,
>but the part that struck me was the fact that I was told repeatedly that
>145K mi was "well past" the lifetime of the converter.

Had you driven any length of time with the MIL on? That can be enough to
finish off a catalytic converter which is past its best. Freeway driving
for any length of time, especially every day, should be enough to burn off
any contamination and keep a cat in good shape - your mileage seems early
to me for it to fail based on your driving habits. Is the engine getting
up to full operating temp and giving good heat?... IOW no sign that the
thermostat might need replaced.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

> Had you driven any length of time with the MIL on? That can be enough to
> finish off a catalytic converter which is past its best. Freeway driving
> for any length of time, especially every day, should be enough to burn off
> any contamination and keep a cat in good shape - your mileage seems early
> to me for it to fail based on your driving habits. Is the engine getting
> up to full operating temp and giving good heat?... IOW no sign that the
> thermostat might need replaced.

First of all, thanks for all the comments from everyone. I appreciate it.

To sort of address what everyone has asked, here's the background that I
left out of the original post to keep it from becoming too convoluted: (Just
in case you are interested).

A few months back (which adds up to quite a bit of mileage on my car
quickly), a gas pump did not click off, and before I could stop it, the tank
had filled and the gas ran out onto the ground. The MIL came on with the
P0420 code. From that day forward, pumping until first "click" resulted in
the P0420 code. So in the repair interim, I started filling up with less
fuel than I believed would fill the tank. The MIL would go off after a few
trips.

The problem was that now my fuel gauge was no longer accurate! It remains
that way to date. I'm guessing it's 3/8 to 1/2 of a tank off! (Showing
emptier than actuality).

Recently, the MIL came on again, this time permanently. The code I received
was the EVAP leak -- I bought a new Honda gas cap to test. Almost right
after that, I received the P0401, EGR insufficient flow. This is when I
took it to Honda to have the free port cleaning -- solving the EGR flow
code.

Gas mileage seems okay. When new, I think I was getting around the 28MPG as
advertised. Now when I check (meaning I have to resort to letting the gas
pump click once), it ranges around 26.5-27MPG, 25.5-26MPG w/ A/C on some
days. I think the worst is around 25MPG. I did have the thermostat
replaced a few months back (probably time again). I wasn't sure, but before
the replacement, it did seem like the engine was running too cold even for
the winter...dragging down the MPG.

I just received my Helm manuals today, so I'm going to look into checking
the Fuel Sending Unit, as well as the other emissions/re-circulation
components such as the PCV.

The reason I was skeptical about the Catalytic converter was that there was
so many other issues going on with the emissions system. But from reading
the comments, it seems like that very well could have pushed the converter
over the edge.

If you have any more suggestions, feel free to send them my way.

Thanks.

Check the evap canister. You may have filled it with gas and ruined it. It
would be worth replacing. Pull the hoses to it and check for gas and blow
them out if possible.


"SR-71" <sr71@rous.com> wrote in message
news:Iuednbpx9IxY4OHd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
> > Had you driven any length of time with the MIL on? That can be enough
to
> > finish off a catalytic converter which is past its best. Freeway
driving
> > for any length of time, especially every day, should be enough to burn
off
> > any contamination and keep a cat in good shape - your mileage seems
early
> > to me for it to fail based on your driving habits. Is the engine
getting
> > up to full operating temp and giving good heat?... IOW no sign that the
> > thermostat might need replaced.
>
> First of all, thanks for all the comments from everyone. I appreciate it.
>
> To sort of address what everyone has asked, here's the background that I
> left out of the original post to keep it from becoming too convoluted:
(Just
> in case you are interested).
>
> A few months back (which adds up to quite a bit of mileage on my car
> quickly), a gas pump did not click off, and before I could stop it, the
tank
> had filled and the gas ran out onto the ground. The MIL came on with the
> P0420 code. From that day forward, pumping until first "click" resulted
in
> the P0420 code. So in the repair interim, I started filling up with less
> fuel than I believed would fill the tank. The MIL would go off after a
few
> trips.
>
> The problem was that now my fuel gauge was no longer accurate! It remains
> that way to date. I'm guessing it's 3/8 to 1/2 of a tank off! (Showing
> emptier than actuality).
>
> Recently, the MIL came on again, this time permanently. The code I
received
> was the EVAP leak -- I bought a new Honda gas cap to test. Almost right
> after that, I received the P0401, EGR insufficient flow. This is when I
> took it to Honda to have the free port cleaning -- solving the EGR flow
> code.
>
> Gas mileage seems okay. When new, I think I was getting around the 28MPG
as
> advertised. Now when I check (meaning I have to resort to letting the gas
> pump click once), it ranges around 26.5-27MPG, 25.5-26MPG w/ A/C on some
> days. I think the worst is around 25MPG. I did have the thermostat
> replaced a few months back (probably time again). I wasn't sure, but
before
> the replacement, it did seem like the engine was running too cold even for
> the winter...dragging down the MPG.
>
> I just received my Helm manuals today, so I'm going to look into checking
> the Fuel Sending Unit, as well as the other emissions/re-circulation
> components such as the PCV.
>
> The reason I was skeptical about the Catalytic converter was that there
was
> so many other issues going on with the emissions system. But from reading
> the comments, it seems like that very well could have pushed the converter
> over the edge.
>
> If you have any more suggestions, feel free to send them my way.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>