Honda Car Forum

Hey, y'all.

I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.

It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the miles
are interstate.

Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had ANY
suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
family.

Thanks,
Adam

On 10 Apr 2004 16:31:17 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:

>Hey, y'all.
>
>I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
>when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
>blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
>that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
>
>It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
>drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the miles
>are interstate.
>
>Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had ANY
>suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
>family.

Is this a U.S. Civic Si - made in Swindon England? Gawd, I hope it's not a
sign of English car disease. I thought Honda was on top of the U.K. OE
suppliers but maybe not - this was typical of quality issues back in the
bad old days, when Rubery Owen supplied the U.K car industry with atrocious
junk. What does "blown" mean?... rubber boot tore open or came off?

AFAICT from the parts list here http://tinyurl.com/36ggw the ball joint is
not a separate part from the knuckle assembly so you want to be sure what
"fixed" means. If the boots are busted there's dirt & water in the ball
joint so you don't want just a new boot fitted.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<qv1i70dh0hd1133ruqpbgk3utbtmf1usi8@4ax.com>. ..
> On 10 Apr 2004 16:31:17 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:
>
> >Hey, y'all.
> >
> >I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
> >when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
> >blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
> >that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
> >
> >It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
> >drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the miles
> >are interstate.
> >
> >Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had ANY
> >suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
> >family.
>
> Is this a U.S. Civic Si - made in Swindon England? Gawd, I hope it's not a
> sign of English car disease. I thought Honda was on top of the U.K. OE
> suppliers but maybe not - this was typical of quality issues back in the
> bad old days, when Rubery Owen supplied the U.K car industry with atrocious
> junk. What does "blown" mean?... rubber boot tore open or came off?
>
> AFAICT from the parts list here http://tinyurl.com/36ggw the ball joint is
> not a separate part from the knuckle assembly so you want to be sure what
> "fixed" means. If the boots are busted there's dirt & water in the ball
> joint so you don't want just a new boot fitted.

Thanks for writing back. Yeah, it's a UK-built, US-market Si
hatchback. Apart from this issue, I have no complaints about it at
all--seems very well built.

I believe the tech's actual words were that they had both "collapsed."
I'm really pretty ignorant regarding suspension components, never
having had to work on them before. I took the wheel off when I got
home and didn't really see anything that looked out of the
ordinary....just a lot of grease everywhere--especially all over the
rims and brake caliper.

Would you mind checking out a few pictures if I post them online?

Thanks,
Adam

In article <3c237c80.0404101531.445bf043@posting.google.com >,
adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:

> I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
> when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
> blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
> that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
>
> It only has about 9000 miles on it.

Jesus. My 130K miles 92 Civic Si has never given any problems even
remotely like that.

One ball joint is a manufacturing defect. Two of them? Weird. Very
weird.

adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote in
news:3c237c80.0404111345.786e33c5@posting.google.c om:

> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in
> message news:<qv1i70dh0hd1133ruqpbgk3utbtmf1usi8@4ax.com>. ..
>> On 10 Apr 2004 16:31:17 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hey, y'all.
>> >
>> >I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
>> >when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
>> >blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
>> >that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
>> >
>> >It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
>> >drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the
>> >miles are interstate.
>> >
>> >Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had
>> >ANY suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
>> >family.
>>
>> Is this a U.S. Civic Si - made in Swindon England? Gawd, I hope it's
>> not a sign of English car disease. I thought Honda was on top of the
>> U.K. OE suppliers but maybe not - this was typical of quality issues
>> back in the bad old days, when Rubery Owen supplied the U.K car
>> industry with atrocious junk. What does "blown" mean?... rubber boot
>> tore open or came off?
>>
>> AFAICT from the parts list here http://tinyurl.com/36ggw the ball
>> joint is not a separate part from the knuckle assembly so you want to
>> be sure what "fixed" means. If the boots are busted there's dirt &
>> water in the ball joint so you don't want just a new boot fitted.
>
> Thanks for writing back. Yeah, it's a UK-built, US-market Si
> hatchback. Apart from this issue, I have no complaints about it at
> all--seems very well built.
>
> I believe the tech's actual words were that they had both "collapsed."
> I'm really pretty ignorant regarding suspension components, never
> having had to work on them before. I took the wheel off when I got
> home and didn't really see anything that looked out of the
> ordinary....just a lot of grease everywhere--especially all over the
> rims and brake caliper.
>
> Would you mind checking out a few pictures if I post them online?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam

I would certinly get a second mecanic to look at it. sounds pretty
supisious to me. KB

--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on

On 11 Apr 2004 14:45:06 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:

>George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<qv1i70dh0hd1133ruqpbgk3utbtmf1usi8@4ax.com>. ..
>> On 10 Apr 2004 16:31:17 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:
>>
>> >Hey, y'all.
>> >
>> >I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
>> >when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
>> >blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
>> >that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
>> >
>> >It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
>> >drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the miles
>> >are interstate.
>> >
>> >Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had ANY
>> >suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
>> >family.
>>
>> Is this a U.S. Civic Si - made in Swindon England? Gawd, I hope it's not a
>> sign of English car disease. I thought Honda was on top of the U.K. OE
>> suppliers but maybe not - this was typical of quality issues back in the
>> bad old days, when Rubery Owen supplied the U.K car industry with atrocious
>> junk. What does "blown" mean?... rubber boot tore open or came off?
>>
>> AFAICT from the parts list here http://tinyurl.com/36ggw the ball joint is
>> not a separate part from the knuckle assembly so you want to be sure what
>> "fixed" means. If the boots are busted there's dirt & water in the ball
>> joint so you don't want just a new boot fitted.
>
>Thanks for writing back. Yeah, it's a UK-built, US-market Si
>hatchback. Apart from this issue, I have no complaints about it at
>all--seems very well built.
>
>I believe the tech's actual words were that they had both "collapsed."
> I'm really pretty ignorant regarding suspension components, never
>having had to work on them before. I took the wheel off when I got
>home and didn't really see anything that looked out of the
>ordinary....just a lot of grease everywhere--especially all over the
>rims and brake caliper.

Hmmm, I didn't think there'd be that much grease in a ball joint. Are you
sure it isn't the C/V joint boots that are torn?

>Would you mind checking out a few pictures if I post them online?

Sure - post the URL.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<4nkj7058np53kojrfc0i64mdl34f61avh4@4ax.com>. ..
> On 11 Apr 2004 14:45:06 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:
>
> >George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<qv1i70dh0hd1133ruqpbgk3utbtmf1usi8@4ax.com>. ..
> >> On 10 Apr 2004 16:31:17 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hey, y'all.
> >> >
> >> >I was at the dealer this morning getting an oil change/tire rotation
> >> >when they called me and said that both of my lower ball joints were
> >> >blown, there was grease all over the inside of both front rims, and
> >> >that I should come in Monday to get it fixed.
> >> >
> >> >It only has about 9000 miles on it. I drive pretty gently and don't
> >> >drag race or go mud boggin' or anyhting like that. Most of the miles
> >> >are interstate.
> >> >
> >> >Any ideas what could've caused BOTH of 'em to go? I've never had ANY
> >> >suspension problems on my old cars, and neither has anyone in my
> >> >family.
> >>
> >> Is this a U.S. Civic Si - made in Swindon England? Gawd, I hope it's not a
> >> sign of English car disease. I thought Honda was on top of the U.K. OE
> >> suppliers but maybe not - this was typical of quality issues back in the
> >> bad old days, when Rubery Owen supplied the U.K car industry with atrocious
> >> junk. What does "blown" mean?... rubber boot tore open or came off?
> >>
> >> AFAICT from the parts list here http://tinyurl.com/36ggw the ball joint is
> >> not a separate part from the knuckle assembly so you want to be sure what
> >> "fixed" means. If the boots are busted there's dirt & water in the ball
> >> joint so you don't want just a new boot fitted.
> >
> >Thanks for writing back. Yeah, it's a UK-built, US-market Si
> >hatchback. Apart from this issue, I have no complaints about it at
> >all--seems very well built.
> >
> >I believe the tech's actual words were that they had both "collapsed."
> > I'm really pretty ignorant regarding suspension components, never
> >having had to work on them before. I took the wheel off when I got
> >home and didn't really see anything that looked out of the
> >ordinary....just a lot of grease everywhere--especially all over the
> >rims and brake caliper.
>
> Hmmm, I didn't think there'd be that much grease in a ball joint. Are you
> sure it isn't the C/V joint boots that are torn?
>

Thanks for the input, y'all. I thought it sounded a bit weird, too,
so I took it to the dealer I bought it from--Grainger Honda in
Savannah--and they said it was the CV joint boot. I thought it looked
like a bit too much grease to be the ball joint. The ball joint did
look all deformed, but I guess it just looked weird from all the
grease on it.

I didn't notice that the CV joint was leaking because it apparently
had a little one-inch slit in it and there was no grease on it. They
said it looked like someone had cut it, but I told them that I hadn't
taken it to Pep Boys or anywhere like that. It's only been serviced
by them and the other Honda dealer.

Right now, they're just replacing the boot. I wanted them to replace
the whole axle in case water or crud got in there but they said that
it looked okay. I'm gonna make them write me a letter in case the CV
joint goes at 40,000 miles or so.

On a side note--thankfully--they gave me a loaner car since they
didn't have the parts in stock. It's a brand new, automatic '04 Civic
LX sedan. I don't know how people can stand driving these
things---it's so boring! The engine is rough and noisy and barely has
any pickup. The Si--especially its K20 engine--is just so much
better. It's hard to believe they're the basically the same
car...really illustrates how crappy American-market cars are compared
to their Euro counterparts.

Anyway, thanks again for the help, y'all.
Adam

> I didn't notice that the CV joint was leaking because it apparently
> had a little one-inch slit in it and there was no grease on it. They
> said it looked like someone had cut it, but I told them that I hadn't
> taken it to Pep Boys or anywhere like that. It's only been serviced
> by them and the other Honda dealer.

suspicious, no? mebbe the other honda dealer wanted some warranty work?

On 12 Apr 2004 11:15:46 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:

>George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<4nkj7058np53kojrfc0i64mdl34f61avh4@4ax.com>. ..
>> On 11 Apr 2004 14:45:06 -0700, adrew@frontiernet.net (Adam Drew) wrote:
<<snip>>
>> Hmmm, I didn't think there'd be that much grease in a ball joint. Are you
>> sure it isn't the C/V joint boots that are torn?
>>
>
>Thanks for the input, y'all. I thought it sounded a bit weird, too,
>so I took it to the dealer I bought it from--Grainger Honda in
>Savannah--and they said it was the CV joint boot. I thought it looked
>like a bit too much grease to be the ball joint. The ball joint did
>look all deformed, but I guess it just looked weird from all the
>grease on it.
>
>I didn't notice that the CV joint was leaking because it apparently
>had a little one-inch slit in it and there was no grease on it. They
>said it looked like someone had cut it, but I told them that I hadn't
>taken it to Pep Boys or anywhere like that. It's only been serviced
>by them and the other Honda dealer.

So it's only the one side then - the other dealer having said it was both
sides? It's possible it was damage due to road debris - we have so much of
it around here in NJ. The convicts who are supposed to clean it up don't
give a shit and it's not often they do a clean up. This is also road-gator
season.:-(

>Right now, they're just replacing the boot. I wanted them to replace
>the whole axle in case water or crud got in there but they said that
>it looked okay. I'm gonna make them write me a letter in case the CV
>joint goes at 40,000 miles or so.

If it's just a single slit as opposed to a whole pleat separation, it's
possible that no dirt got in, so it could be OK.... as long as they cleaned
and repacked with grease.

>On a side note--thankfully--they gave me a loaner car since they
>didn't have the parts in stock. It's a brand new, automatic '04 Civic
>LX sedan. I don't know how people can stand driving these
>things---it's so boring! The engine is rough and noisy and barely has
>any pickup. The Si--especially its K20 engine--is just so much
>better. It's hard to believe they're the basically the same
>car...really illustrates how crappy American-market cars are compared
>to their Euro counterparts.

IMO Honda is making a blunder by persisting with the old SOHC engine in the
Civic. Surely they could have come out with a 1.8L K Series engine for the
Civic if they wanted to keep the market layering.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:

(snip)

>>I didn't notice that the CV joint was leaking because it apparently
>>had a little one-inch slit in it and there was no grease on it. They
>>said it looked like someone had cut it, but I told them that I hadn't
>>taken it to Pep Boys or anywhere like that. It's only been serviced
>>by them and the other Honda dealer.
>
>
> So it's only the one side then - the other dealer having said it was both
> sides? It's possible it was damage due to road debris - we have so much of
> it around here in NJ. The convicts who are supposed to clean it up don't
> give a shit and it's not often they do a clean up. This is also road-gator
> season.:-(

Yeah, just the one side. I looked at the other side when I got home and
didn't see anything wrong...but, hey, they're the mechanics, right?

Not really. It was on Saturday morning and there were no "real" techs
around--only the Quick Lube guys. And, like I said, I'm pretty ignorant
'bout suspensions. But, to be safe, I'll probably stick with the
original dealership. They really seem to have their shit together.

They really said that it looked like it had been deliberately cut--not
torn. This is interesting to me because it couldn't have been the oil
change dealer--the grease inside the wheel had been there for a while,
as it was all dirty. Maybe the original dealer could've nicked it back
in December when it got its first oil change? I dunno. All I care
about is that it's fixed, you know?

Thanks again for your help.
Adam