Honda Car Forum

Hi,
I had a leak down test done today and the results are 8 % on two of
the cylinders and 12% on the other two. They say that the rings have
seized up due to carbon and that is what is causing the leak.

What do I do now?

Also, yes tthey are the ones who set teh valves tight in the firsst
place, but today I went to them and saw that their .012 gauge is
totally worn out, its more like .010, so no wonder they set them
tight. But now what tehy are claiming is that I set them too lose and
that is what is messing up everything.

Thanks

Es




George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<bv6m70lbqi2cahh7436nt5m268gictb0qs@4ax.com>. ..
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:28:07 -0500, "asdf" <ramswaroop@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >This sounds terrible, but I tried turning the crank yesterday and I am
> >hearing fairly audible hiss on cylinders 1 and 3.. I am gonna get a
> >compression check done tommorrow, seems like its gonna be bad news.
>
> Well you *will* always hear *some* hiss but along with the back pressure of
> the valves sealing. IOW the air will escape slowly with the compression -
> I guess you've compared with the "feel" of the compression stroke on the
> other cylinders.
>
> >I dont notice severe chugging but it is noticeable, even if i floor the gas,
> >the car does not respond, then tries, gives up, tries gives up...
> >
> >Talked to the service manager today, and he is trying to escape from fixing
> >the problem by saying that it is normal for a 70k miles car. These fellows
> >are really bad.
> >What can I do if they dont take responsibility??
>
> Was it them who set the valves too tight in the first place? Is this a
> Honda dealer? Only recourse I can think of would be if it fails an
> emissions check... then it *could* be a warranty issue.
>
> >Also, how hard is it gonna be to change the valves? Sounds like a time
> >consuming task...
> >
> >In case I do have damage to the car, will it be just the valves or would the
> >exhaust and intake manifolds also take some wear? If so, should I change the
> >head?
>
> New valves almost inevitably and it depends onhow bad the valve seats are
> burnt, whether they can be reground or have to be replaced - a new head
> might be a better option given the $$ involved. If that service place
> can't set the valve clearances right in the first place, unlikely I'd trust
> them with that kind of work.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Hi,

In addition to all the problems mentioned above, I noticed something
strange with the exhaust gases on my car, when I ask someone to stamp
on the gas and the rpm goes up, and I feel the exhaust stream using my
hand, the exhaust gases volume(flow) reduces and becomes hotter, at
really high rpms, I almost cannot feel the exhaust flow, only the
heat.. What is happening???

Thanks,

es


ramswaroop@hotmail.com (eswaroop) wrote in message news:<d634bb54.0404130824.1f56d4b5@posting.google. com>...
> Hi,
> I had a leak down test done today and the results are 8 % on two of
> the cylinders and 12% on the other two. They say that the rings have
> seized up due to carbon and that is what is causing the leak.
>
> What do I do now?
>
> Also, yes tthey are the ones who set teh valves tight in the firsst
> place, but today I went to them and saw that their .012 gauge is
> totally worn out, its more like .010, so no wonder they set them
> tight. But now what tehy are claiming is that I set them too lose and
> that is what is messing up everything.
>
> Thanks
>
> Es
>
>
>
>
> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<bv6m70lbqi2cahh7436nt5m268gictb0qs@4ax.com>. ..
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:28:07 -0500, "asdf" <ramswaroop@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >This sounds terrible, but I tried turning the crank yesterday and I am
> > >hearing fairly audible hiss on cylinders 1 and 3.. I am gonna get a
> > >compression check done tommorrow, seems like its gonna be bad news.
> >
> > Well you *will* always hear *some* hiss but along with the back pressure of
> > the valves sealing. IOW the air will escape slowly with the compression -
> > I guess you've compared with the "feel" of the compression stroke on the
> > other cylinders.
> >
> > >I dont notice severe chugging but it is noticeable, even if i floor the gas,
> > >the car does not respond, then tries, gives up, tries gives up...
> > >
> > >Talked to the service manager today, and he is trying to escape from fixing
> > >the problem by saying that it is normal for a 70k miles car. These fellows
> > >are really bad.
> > >What can I do if they dont take responsibility??
> >
> > Was it them who set the valves too tight in the first place? Is this a
> > Honda dealer? Only recourse I can think of would be if it fails an
> > emissions check... then it *could* be a warranty issue.
> >
> > >Also, how hard is it gonna be to change the valves? Sounds like a time
> > >consuming task...
> > >
> > >In case I do have damage to the car, will it be just the valves or would the
> > >exhaust and intake manifolds also take some wear? If so, should I change the
> > >head?
> >
> > New valves almost inevitably and it depends onhow bad the valve seats are
> > burnt, whether they can be reground or have to be replaced - a new head
> > might be a better option given the $$ involved. If that service place
> > can't set the valve clearances right in the first place, unlikely I'd trust
> > them with that kind of work.
> >
> > Rgds, George Macdonald
> >
> > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

eswaroop wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In addition to all the problems mentioned above, I noticed something
> strange with the exhaust gases on my car, when I ask someone to stamp
> on the gas and the rpm goes up, and I feel the exhaust stream using my
> hand, the exhaust gases volume(flow) reduces and becomes hotter, at
> really high rpms, I almost cannot feel the exhaust flow, only the
> heat.. What is happening???
>
> Thanks,
>
> es


============================

Your cat must have a bunch of rust / carbon chunks sitting in the inlet
side. When you punch the gas, it all flies up and blocks the intake of
the cat, which is similar to a segment of screen door (as far as passing
air goes)

Remove the cat and dump out all the junk, or somehow vacuum it from the
exhaust manifold end.

Maybe the dealer blew the carbon crud down there, instead of being
careful to REMOVE it.

'curly'

==============

On 13 Apr 2004 09:24:03 -0700, ramswaroop@hotmail.com (eswaroop) wrote:

>Hi,
>I had a leak down test done today and the results are 8 % on two of
>the cylinders and 12% on the other two. They say that the rings have
>seized up due to carbon and that is what is causing the leak.
>
>What do I do now?

I guess it wouldn't do any harm to use one of the fuel additives which is
supposed to clean valves and combustion chamber - nothing to lose. Give it
a longish drive with the engine in the sweet spot where it still feels like
it's working OK and allow a couple of heat soaks in between.

>Also, yes tthey are the ones who set teh valves tight in the firsst
>place, but today I went to them and saw that their .012 gauge is
>totally worn out, its more like .010, so no wonder they set them
>tight. But now what tehy are claiming is that I set them too lose and
>that is what is messing up everything.

They don't even have a metric feeler gauge and they are servicing
imports??<shrug>

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

On 13 Apr 2004 20:34:04 -0700, ramswaroop@hotmail.com (eswaroop) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In addition to all the problems mentioned above, I noticed something
>strange with the exhaust gases on my car, when I ask someone to stamp
>on the gas and the rpm goes up, and I feel the exhaust stream using my
>hand, the exhaust gases volume(flow) reduces and becomes hotter, at
>really high rpms, I almost cannot feel the exhaust flow, only the
>heat.. What is happening???

This is getting beyond my personal experience so guessing... but it sounds
like an exhaust system restriction of some kind, possibly the catalytic
converter as Curly suggests. I don't recall hearing anything about EGR
cleaning though??... or maybe even an induction system restriction. Have
you checked the resonator box and intake for obstructions? Check the
intake tube, from air cleaner to manifold, for collapsing when you blip the
throttle - IME it may contract just very slightly if you open the throttle
quickly. We still don't know which engine this is.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

The engine is a F23A1 4 cylinder 2.3 litres.

I am already running techron concentrate and took it out on a 60 mile
drive yesterday. Shall do that again today, but do not know if it is
helping..

I had a heart attack when I saw how worn the gauges were. The worst
mistake I have done with my car is to have them set the valves.

The intake side seems ok to me, no signs of collapse or choking.

Damn the fellas, just to accuse me that I had set the valves
incorrectly, they seem to have loosened a couple of valves, the engine
seems to be rougher now..

In addition to everything else, Shall try to check if the valves are
to specs again this weekend.

So why is the exhaust choking up? CAT seems like a solid possibility
to me. The car has a warranty on the CAT till 80k miles, and I am
covered, so I am getting it checked out tommorrow.(at another
dealer..)




George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message news:<gmrp701ois7as3gh03gnj201d1ll6kl1e2@4ax.com>. ..
> On 13 Apr 2004 09:24:03 -0700, ramswaroop@hotmail.com (eswaroop) wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >I had a leak down test done today and the results are 8 % on two of
> >the cylinders and 12% on the other two. They say that the rings have
> >seized up due to carbon and that is what is causing the leak.
> >
> >What do I do now?
>
> I guess it wouldn't do any harm to use one of the fuel additives which is
> supposed to clean valves and combustion chamber - nothing to lose. Give it
> a longish drive with the engine in the sweet spot where it still feels like
> it's working OK and allow a couple of heat soaks in between.
>
> >Also, yes tthey are the ones who set teh valves tight in the firsst
> >place, but today I went to them and saw that their .012 gauge is
> >totally worn out, its more like .010, so no wonder they set them
> >tight. But now what tehy are claiming is that I set them too lose and
> >that is what is messing up everything.
>
> They don't even have a metric feeler gauge and they are servicing
> imports??<shrug>
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

On 14 Apr 2004 08:09:37 -0700, ramswaroop@hotmail.com (eswaroop) wrote:

>The engine is a F23A1 4 cylinder 2.3 litres.
>
>I am already running techron concentrate and took it out on a 60 mile
>drive yesterday. Shall do that again today, but do not know if it is
>helping..
>
>I had a heart attack when I saw how worn the gauges were. The worst
>mistake I have done with my car is to have them set the valves.
>
>The intake side seems ok to me, no signs of collapse or choking.
>
>Damn the fellas, just to accuse me that I had set the valves
>incorrectly, they seem to have loosened a couple of valves, the engine
>seems to be rougher now..
>
>In addition to everything else, Shall try to check if the valves are
>to specs again this weekend.

Probably a good idea, just in case there's any crud which was on the seats
which has been cleaned off. I've found the F23A1/4(don't recall which I
have) engines a PITA to set the valves on. Once I get the clearance right
and apply a bit of torque to take up any lash in the threads, when I apply
the final torque, the locknut often seems to turn the adjuster a touch and
therefore tighten the clearance a bit. It varies by individual valve so
cannot be compensated for consistently. I hate the job and blame the cheap
locknuts/adjusters with no chamfer on the nuts which are on the F23A1/4.
By comparison, my Integra DOHC engine is much easier to do.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Hi,

In addition to the techron concentrate, is there anything else I can
do to try and loosen up the rings? Maybe pour something through the
spark plug holes, let it sit overnight and clean it up by cranking the
engine without the plugs in them? Maybe I might haveto change the
engine oil after that, but if it frees up the rings its worth it..

Any suggestions?

> engine without the plugs in them? Maybe I might haveto change the
> engine oil after that, but if it frees up the rings its worth it..
>
> Any suggestions?

marvel mystery oil?

Can you describe in more detail how to go about using it? How much quantity
to use, how long to let it sit soaking, how to remove most of it before
cranking up? Any damage possibility to the o2 sensors, CAT ?

"mike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:14ofc.39856$wP1.158670@attbi_s54...
>
>
> > engine without the plugs in them? Maybe I might haveto change the
> > engine oil after that, but if it frees up the rings its worth it..
> >
> > Any suggestions?
>
> marvel mystery oil?
>
>