Honda Car Forum

Data Retreived: http://www.smogtips.com

The $500.00 dollars the BAR advisor is talking about is the CAP
Program. The State of California can help repair your failing vehicle,
when they have selected your vehicle to be inspected at a test only
station.

You can receive up to $500.00 dollars in FREE smog diagnosis and
repairs through the Consumer Assistance Program (CAP). The CAP Repair
Assistance program is designed to help consumers bring their vehicles
into compliance with California emission standards. Through the CAP
program the State will pay the CAP repair shop you choose up to
$500.00 dollars for repair work performed on your vehicle.

You can apply for this program by either downloading the CAP
application from http://www.smogtips.com or by calling the BAR at
(800)952-5210.

Now, as far as Test Only Stations and why your vehicle was choosen to
have to visit one: Test-Only stations, as the name suggests, can only
test vehicles and are not allowed to perform smog related automotive
repairs. A Test Only station's main obligation is to insure a non-bias
and accurate smog inspection. If your vehicle fails the smog
inspection and requires repairs to pass, they must be conducted at a
State Certified Test and Repair smog station.

The State of California uses the following three strategies to
determine whether a vehicle is Test-Only designated or not:


-Gross polluters (vehicles which have failed a previous smog
inspection with very high emission readings)

-High Emitter Profile vehicles. These are vehicle types designated by
the Bureau of Automotive Repair as having high chances of failing the
smog inspection.

-A random sample of the vehicles on the road.

I hope this information is helpfull. You can find more info on a
website I've found very helpfull called http://www.smogtips.com.


"Wolfgang Bley" <wolfgang@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<Zjj4c.8108$_3.102290@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> "Red Cloud" <mmdir2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1c9e1197.0403112206.72d793e1@posting.google.c om...
> > My car was ordered to get smog check at Test only station. I don't believe
> > this. I complainted to DMV. They said my car model fits the profile of the
> > polluting car. I asked many time what is the differece between Test only
> > and regular station. They said it's same testing station except the way
> > collecting data is different. Here is what shits about the wholes. First
> of all,
> > Test Only staton charged twice as regular station. A nearby two smog check
> > stations in same garage, a regular check charges $29 and Test only charge
> $59.
> > I checked many place. They all charged twice. I don't understand why do I
> have
> > to go to Test only when it fact it's same test. SEcond of all, it seems
> > CA DMV is possibly going after a Civic and other Honda model for being
> the
> > notorious of making noise in street. My car is not modified. It is not
> fair
> > how my simply car is fited into their profile. I talked about like if my
> > car failed Test Only station, the DMV Consumer affair supervisor told me
> > about $500 or something to pay to fix the car. I don't know what the hell
> > $500 is all about. Does DMV want me to pay $500 in case my car failed the
> > test?
> >
> > Does anyone tell the real difference between Test Only check and Regular
> check
> > station?
> I am assuming you are in California. Correct? The test only stations have a
> different certification than the regular test and repair stations. Recently
> there was a long thread on the Toyota board over this issue ie.) the list of
> gross polluters target by the CA DMV. If your car is on this list I
> recommend you spend $60 and go the a regular smog station for a "PRE TEST"
> exam. THIS DOES NOT GO TO THE DMV via modem. Fix what ever needs to be fixed
> then go the Test Only Smog station and PASS on the first go around! If you
> fail ie.) GP - gross polluter you are in for more grief and $60 is a small
> price to pay to avoid grief with the CA DMV IMHO. The $500 is the "average"
> amount that people spent to get a gross polluter fixed to pass. You can find
> the data on the DMV web site. It is just a statistic they have collected.
> They actually have a program for low income people that helps them pay for
> all or part of these repairs. wolf

The smogtips.com site is basically pretty worthless, in terms of the
information it provides. When I went there, I was really looking for some
good meaty technical information that would help me pass my smog test.

There's a good reason for me to bring this up. For those of you who live in
the Bay Area of California, you have already either discovered, or will soon
discover (perhaps to your utter shock and dismay) that smog regulations in
our area are now so stringent that it will be a challenge for most vehicles
nearing the 10-year mark to pass. Trust me with this; I know of what I
speak.

So, without further ado, let me get to the real "smog tips" that may be of
help to you as you submit your vehicle to the rigors of this new atrocity.

1. Fill your tank with the most premium octane gasoline you can find. If you
can visit a nearby Target store and buy a $2.99 bottle of "octane booster"
while you're at it, go for it. Don't bother paying the $6.99 or more that
Kragen and other auto parts stores charge you for essentially the same
stuff.
2. Change your engine oil before you get your smog check. This is super
important.
3. Try and get new spark plugs installed if you can. It's important to have
good, clean ignition in all your cylinders every time. Else, you'll end up
with unburned fuel going out the exhaust. You don't want that contributing
to your HC (hydrocarbon) levels in any way. Strictly speaking, it's the job
of the cat to burn up all of the unburned fuel as the exhaust makes its way
out. However, in order for the cat to perfectly incinerate all of that fuel,
it will need to reach a very "optimal" temperature. This implies that the
people doing the test must run the engine until it gets nice and hot. Which
could take a good 10 minutes or so. If they don't do this carefully, it
could mean the difference between passing the HC limits and failing them
miserably.
4. Drive on the highway for at least 10 minutes to get your engine really
hot (see item 3 above) and get the smog done immediately. If the car "sits
around" in the parking lot before the test, it will cool off, and it will
make it that much harder to pass the test.
5. If you suspect your car is a good candidate for failure, you might want
to have your EGR valve cleaned before the test. That will get all the carbon
deposits out and increase your chances of success considerably.
6. Get thee a new PCV valve if your old one isn't working perfectly. The
PCVs are dirt cheap. Typically less than $3.
7. Get a new air filter as well. These are also very cheap and easy to
install yourself.

And good luck. I am really concerned that the slimebuckets in the smog
stations who specialize in ripping off poor hapless souls will make hay with
this new SMOG-2 requirement. And if this spreads to other states as well,
we'll see tens of thousands of car owners being victimised for no reason.
The chap I first went to failed me and then had the nerve to tell me he
wanted $80 "just to diagnose" what it would take to have my car pass the HC
test, at idle speed. I paid him the $44 test fee and walked out. Changed the
plugs, filled my tank with premium gasoline, changed the fuel filter and
passed the test at another station. I wish I could start a campaign to
educate motorists on how easy it is to get your car "in shape" for the smog
test and stop falling for these terror tactics that the smog operators
commonly practice. This post is my small contribution to this cause.




"Alec Vega" <thesmogtech@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:172dde7f.0403311917.3c2216e8@posting.google.c om...
> Data Retreived: http://www.smogtips.com
> > >

phileas_fogg <oncebitten@twiceshy.com> wrote:
> 4. Drive on the highway for at least 10 minutes to get your engine really
> hot (see item 3 above) and get the smog done immediately. If the car "sits
> around" in the parking lot before the test, it will cool off, and it will
> make it that much harder to pass the test.

My '88 failed the test a couple of years ago. I took it to a Dodge dealer
who commented that it wasn't hot enough to pass the test, and left it
idling for almost an hour. I thought overheating was a bad thing, but in
some cases it is necessary. It passed the test, which turns out to be the
last one it will need. There is no biennial inspection where I live now.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

"phileas_fogg" <oncebitten@twiceshy.com> spake unto the masses in
news:ccPac.44875$NT.24530@newssvr25.news.prodigy.c om:

> The smogtips.com site is basically pretty worthless, in terms of the
> information it provides. When I went there, I was really looking for
> some good meaty technical information that would help me pass my smog
> test.
>
> There's a good reason for me to bring this up. For those of you who
> live in the Bay Area of California, you have already either
> discovered, or will soon discover (perhaps to your utter shock and
> dismay) that smog regulations in our area are now so stringent that it
> will be a challenge for most vehicles nearing the 10-year mark to
> pass.



Please post the limits that your vehicle must meet. Should be on the
emissions test report.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:06:48 GMT, "phileas_fogg" <oncebitten@twiceshy.com>
wrote:

>The smogtips.com site is basically pretty worthless, in terms of the
>information it provides. When I went there, I was really looking for some
>good meaty technical information that would help me pass my smog test.
>
>There's a good reason for me to bring this up. For those of you who live in
>the Bay Area of California, you have already either discovered, or will soon
>discover (perhaps to your utter shock and dismay) that smog regulations in
>our area are now so stringent that it will be a challenge for most vehicles
>nearing the 10-year mark to pass. Trust me with this; I know of what I
>speak.

Are you saying that the emissions levels have been reduced below what the
car had to meet when new? Why do people put up with this? Get the buggers
out of "power".

>So, without further ado, let me get to the real "smog tips" that may be of
>help to you as you submit your vehicle to the rigors of this new atrocity.
>
>1. Fill your tank with the most premium octane gasoline you can find. If you
>can visit a nearby Target store and buy a $2.99 bottle of "octane booster"
>while you're at it, go for it. Don't bother paying the $6.99 or more that
>Kragen and other auto parts stores charge you for essentially the same
>stuff.
>2. Change your engine oil before you get your smog check. This is super
>important.
>3. Try and get new spark plugs installed if you can. It's important to have
>good, clean ignition in all your cylinders every time. Else, you'll end up
>with unburned fuel going out the exhaust. You don't want that contributing
>to your HC (hydrocarbon) levels in any way. Strictly speaking, it's the job
>of the cat to burn up all of the unburned fuel as the exhaust makes its way
>out. However, in order for the cat to perfectly incinerate all of that fuel,
>it will need to reach a very "optimal" temperature. This implies that the
>people doing the test must run the engine until it gets nice and hot. Which
>could take a good 10 minutes or so. If they don't do this carefully, it
>could mean the difference between passing the HC limits and failing them
>miserably.
>4. Drive on the highway for at least 10 minutes to get your engine really
>hot (see item 3 above) and get the smog done immediately. If the car "sits
>around" in the parking lot before the test, it will cool off, and it will
>make it that much harder to pass the test.
>5. If you suspect your car is a good candidate for failure, you might want
>to have your EGR valve cleaned before the test. That will get all the carbon
>deposits out and increase your chances of success considerably.
>6. Get thee a new PCV valve if your old one isn't working perfectly. The
>PCVs are dirt cheap. Typically less than $3.
>7. Get a new air filter as well. These are also very cheap and easy to
>install yourself.
>
>And good luck. I am really concerned that the slimebuckets in the smog
>stations who specialize in ripping off poor hapless souls will make hay with
>this new SMOG-2 requirement. And if this spreads to other states as well,
>we'll see tens of thousands of car owners being victimised for no reason.
>The chap I first went to failed me and then had the nerve to tell me he
>wanted $80 "just to diagnose" what it would take to have my car pass the HC
>test, at idle speed. I paid him the $44 test fee and walked out. Changed the
>plugs, filled my tank with premium gasoline, changed the fuel filter and
>passed the test at another station. I wish I could start a campaign to
>educate motorists on how easy it is to get your car "in shape" for the smog
>test and stop falling for these terror tactics that the smog operators
>commonly practice. This post is my small contribution to this cause.

Yep that stuff is like putting the cat in charge of the canary. Where I
live, at the edge of an off-shoot of the Reading prong we have a thing with
radon gas. People have had their houses checked (mandatory when selling a
house) independently by university labs but uhh, "that doesn't count". You
have to get the test and certification done by the very guy who wants to
bend you over for fitting a ventilation system - madness.

I'm not sure your premium gas will help though, unless you have (even a
small amount of) water in the tank. In fact there are claims by some Honda
dealers that higher octane gas does not always combust fully in some of the
new ULEVs spec'd for regular and especially hybrid cars like Insight - it's
been discussed here... Google for it. Personally I have trouble believing
this but apparently there is some Honda bulletin on it.

To come back to the water thing, if there is 10% ethanol in your pump
gasoline, it can only absorb ~0.6% water before the water separates out and
takes most of the ethanol with it... which takes a hefty chunk of octane
number with it, since ethanol has an effective blending octane of ~110.
Obviously the octane of the remaining petroleum part of the gasohol blend
is seriously depleted in octane number. In that situation it'd be worth
running some isopropanol "dry-gas", like iso-Heet through the system on the
last tankful before the test - run that fill low and refill with fresh gas
from the pump.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:tn8t601kmnbsmm61delmb09f5rhv8umtui@4ax.com...
>
> Are you saying that the emissions levels have been reduced below what the
> car had to meet when new? Why do people put up with this? Get the
buggers
> out of "power".

In Ontario, they've lowered the allowable emissions twice.

Now, they're phasing out testing altogether.

<SNIPPED A LOT>

>>And good luck. I am really concerned that the slimebuckets in the smog
>>stations who specialize in ripping off poor hapless souls will make hay with
>>this new SMOG-2 requirement. And if this spreads to other states as well,
>>we'll see tens of thousands of car owners being victimised for no reason.
>>The chap I first went to failed me and then had the nerve to tell me he
>>wanted $80 "just to diagnose" what it would take to have my car pass the HC
>>test, at idle speed. I paid him the $44 test fee and walked out. Changed the
>>plugs, filled my tank with premium gasoline, changed the fuel filter and
>>passed the test at another station. I wish I could start a campaign to
>>educate motorists on how easy it is to get your car "in shape" for the smog
>>test and stop falling for these terror tactics that the smog operators
>>commonly practice. This post is my small contribution to this cause.

I'm happy to hear you were able to resolve the problems on your own.

The Bay Area just recently went to Enhanced (BAR-97) w/ Dyno.
Additionally, the acceptable levels of HC and NOx have dropped notably
in the last few of years. The CA ARB has really clamped down on
NOx..

The truth is: the Smog Dyno and equipment are expensive. The
technician who runs the dyno and does the repairs must jump through
lots of hoops and is limited in what he can do to make the car pass.
(Running the car at 2500 RPM for 2 minutes before the start of smog
test to pre-condition the Cat is illegal.)

Also, why shouldn't you be charged for diagnostic time? When you goto
a doctor and ask whats wrong with me, you expect to pay him for his
time, don't you?

As for all these poor drivers being victimized -- blah blah blah.
Tell it to BAR. It's not the stations or technicians who are seeking
to waste your time. Both are strictly regulated and the penalties
for operating outside the parameters of the CA BAR are very high.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:16:11 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
<sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

>
>"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
>news:tn8t601kmnbsmm61delmb09f5rhv8umtui@4ax.com.. .
>>
>> Are you saying that the emissions levels have been reduced below what the
>> car had to meet when new? Why do people put up with this? Get the
>buggers
>> out of "power".
>
>In Ontario, they've lowered the allowable emissions twice.

The mfr made the car according to a certain govt. specified standard for
emissions, which was based on technology available at the time. Are you
saying that the govt. now turns around and expects owners of older cars to
retrofit with newer technology to get emissions below what the OE spec was?
Or does the govt. just have its head up its ass on the relationship between
technology advance and its possibilities?

>Now, they're phasing out testing altogether.

Huh? They gave up?... or are they going to do spot checks and just hit you
for the fines?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> The mfr made the car according to a certain govt. specified standard for
> emissions, which was based on technology available at the time. Are you
> saying that the govt. now turns around and expects owners of older cars to
> retrofit with newer technology to get emissions below what the OE spec was?

There was such a requirement once in California, affecting cars around 1967
vintage. Some spark retard retrofit. That's not the current case. Now
the requirements are being tightened closer to what the original was. It
used to be that a used car would pass smog for a long time with only
routine maintenance. The emissions limits were always large multiples of
the measured amounts on a reasonably maintained car.

I live in a county that isn't subject to the stringent new rules, but it
seems that the newer rules are more sensible than the old ones. The old
standard was that cars were tested in odd years if the VIN ended in an odd
number, so you might have a one year old car being tested. Now there is no
test for cars less than four years old.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/online/vrir/faqsmog.htm

But the older cars are now held to stricter standards. No where near what
the car was expected to do when new, but tighter than what used to be
expected of a used car. Now, smog equipment (catcon) might need to be
replaced as periodic maintenance, where previously a 15 year old catcon was
still viable.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> spake unto the masses in
news:vUTbc.19$L_8.10@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rog ers.com:

>
> "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in
> message news:tn8t601kmnbsmm61delmb09f5rhv8umtui@4ax.com...
>>
>> Are you saying that the emissions levels have been reduced below what
>> the car had to meet when new? Why do people put up with this? Get
>> the
> buggers
>> out of "power".
>
> In Ontario, they've lowered the allowable emissions twice.



Yes. My 1991 car is now required to meet 2001 standards for HC and CO,
which it does quite handily, even with the mileage it has. Strange, that,
isn't it?

Actually, over 90% of cars are passing, even with the lower limits AND our
"dirty" gas.

Part of the limit-tightening was a sop to garages, which have been whining
about not seeing the forced repairs they were promised. Many of them were
counting on repairs to help cover the cost of the equiment and training.


>
> Now, they're phasing out testing altogether.



Not quite. They've sent up a trial balloon to see what shots it attracts.
If the environuts shriek too loud, I'm sure the idea will be dropped.

Interestingly, while they are mulling over eliminating testing for gasoline
engines, they are now implementing new and VERY tough controls on diesels!
There is no plan afoot to drop diesel testing.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com