Honda Car Forum

My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
"5W-20".

I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
to stock).

Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
weight) ?

Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:11:22 GMT, "Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote:

>My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
>owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
>"5W-20".
>
>I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
>they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
>to stock).
>
>Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
>weight) ?
>
>Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?
>
>

My '04 Civic LX also calls for 5W20 and has that on the oil-fill cap.
I looked around and was only able to find a quart or two at most at
several auto parts stores in my area (NC). I just found a case of
Penzoil 5-20 when I was in a Walmart here and so I went ahead and
picked it up. I just crossed the 1,000 mile mark on mine and don't
plan on changing the oil until 5,000 miles and then every 5,000 miles
after that. You can change the oil on your car yourself and as long
as you keep records and receipts of it then you'll still be covered
under your warranty. I realize I didn't answer any of your questions,
but figured maybe you'd wanna know you can find 5W20 if you look
enough and also that you can change your own oil and still be covered
by warranty. Good luck.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:11:22 GMT, "Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote:

>My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
>owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
>"5W-20".
>
>I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
>they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
>to stock).

Most of the lube mfrs now make 5W/20 in some of their grades so it is
available - your local vendors are probably just reluctant to dedicate
shelf space to oil which is recommended by only two auto mfrs, Ford and
Honda. The one notable exception is Mobil1 which is not available in
5W/20; to tell the truth I think it may be quite difficult to make a true
synthetic with such a narrow viscosity range.

>Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
>weight) ?

The question has been much discussed here in the past if you want to search
for previous posts at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search

It's everything from a plot to make our engines fail earlier to the
advancement of metallurgy and lubricants technology.:-) My POV is that
it's something the EPA is ramming down our throats by way of the auto mfrs
as an "energy conserving" measure. The difference in mpg is barely
measurable and easily voided by different individual driving habits.

>Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?

My opinion: the 5W/30 willl give you a slight extra margin of engine
protection, over the 5W/20, at high ambient temps, say >90F. I'd use the
5W/30. In fact, if you don't live in the frost belt, I'd use 10W/30.

The next time you go to the Honda/Acura dealer parts dept, they may have a
counter mat which lists the oil grade reqts by model. Take a good look at
at it and ask yourself why Honda still recommends 10W/30 for the S2000 and
NSX.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:11:22 GMT, "Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote:
>
>
>>My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
>>owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
>>"5W-20".
>>
>>I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
>>they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
>>to stock).
>
>
> Most of the lube mfrs now make 5W/20 in some of their grades so it is
> available - your local vendors are probably just reluctant to dedicate
> shelf space to oil which is recommended by only two auto mfrs, Ford and
> Honda. The one notable exception is Mobil1 which is not available in
> 5W/20; to tell the truth I think it may be quite difficult to make a true
> synthetic with such a narrow viscosity range.

There are a few synthetic blends in 5W-20 weight. One is Castrol
Syntec, which some believe is dubiously labelled as such. The other
is Pennzoil "SUV, Truck, and Minivan", although it may be hard to find.

Mobil 1 0W-20 is labelled as suitable for 5W-20 applications. I
theing that's the factory oil weight for Honda hybrid engines. The
original weight of Mobil 1 25 years ago was 5W-20.

>>Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
>>weight) ?
>
>
> The question has been much discussed here in the past if you want to search
> for previous posts at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
>
> It's everything from a plot to make our engines fail earlier to the
> advancement of metallurgy and lubricants technology.:-) My POV is that
> it's something the EPA is ramming down our throats by way of the auto mfrs
> as an "energy conserving" measure. The difference in mpg is barely
> measurable and easily voided by different individual driving habits.

I saw the spec sheet for Havoline motor oil. All weights from 5W-30
to 20W-50 and single weights contained 0.103% zinc (by weight). The
exception was 5W-20, which is 0.112%. A zinc compound is an anti-wear
additive - right?

<http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/c88c682625e06af6882568db00737ce8/d1099203c4293c4f88256b5600791e6c/$FILE/PCMO-2210.pdf>

BTW - I've suspected that Chevron Supreme motor oil may be the same
since the ChevronTexaco merger. However - the spec sheet seems to be
different.

<http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/c88c682625e06af6882568db00737ce8/c748bacbd316e79a88256a0000786813/$FILE/PCMO-20.pdf>

>>Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?
>
>
> My opinion: the 5W/30 willl give you a slight extra margin of engine
> protection, over the 5W/20, at high ambient temps, say >90F. I'd use the
> 5W/30. In fact, if you don't live in the frost belt, I'd use 10W/30.
>
> The next time you go to the Honda/Acura dealer parts dept, they may have a
> counter mat which lists the oil grade reqts by model. Take a good look at
> at it and ask yourself why Honda still recommends 10W/30 for the S2000 and
> NSX.

These are extremely high revving engines. However - the Integra GS-R
and other DOHC VTEC engines are similar and 5W-30 is the recommended
weight. MY new WRX recommends 5W-30, but says 10W-30 and 10W-40(??)
are acceptable for normal driving above. The manual even advises
using 30, 40, 20W-40, or 20W-50 if you're towing or it's really hot.
Europeans are used to using heavier grades (with longer drains), and
their motor oils are subject to a higher standard than API SL. OTOH -
they typically won't keep a car beyond maybe 60K miles.

"Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote in message
news:edUZb.32720$Xp.137125@attbi_s54...
> My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
> owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
> "5W-20".
>
> I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
> they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
> to stock).
>
> Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
> weight) ?
>
> Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?

I suspect that the only consequence of using slightly thicker oil in your
Civic would be some reduction in fuel economy.

Honda branded motor oil is 10W-30 oils when they sell their vehicles in
Australia.
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm click on Honda oil

Some good 5W-20 oils include Motorcraft 5W-20, Pennzoil "SUV, Truck,
Minivan" 5W-20 and Castrol Syntec Blend 5W-20. All three of these are part
dino oil, part synthetic and have yielded good oil analysis results as
posted on the discussion board at:

Go to:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...?ubb=forum;f=3

Search on Honda. You will find lots of results of various oils in use in
Hondas including both 5W-20 and other grades.

John

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:32:46 GMT, y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:11:22 GMT, "Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote:

<<snip>>

>> Most of the lube mfrs now make 5W/20 in some of their grades so it is
>> available - your local vendors are probably just reluctant to dedicate
>> shelf space to oil which is recommended by only two auto mfrs, Ford and
>> Honda. The one notable exception is Mobil1 which is not available in
>> 5W/20; to tell the truth I think it may be quite difficult to make a true
>> synthetic with such a narrow viscosity range.
>
>There are a few synthetic blends in 5W-20 weight. One is Castrol
>Syntec, which some believe is dubiously labelled as such.

Castrol's own confession tells us the truth of the matter:
http://www.castrolusa.com/syntecresponse.html

<snip>>

>>>Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
>>>weight) ?
>>
>>
>> The question has been much discussed here in the past if you want to search
>> for previous posts at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
>>
>> It's everything from a plot to make our engines fail earlier to the
>> advancement of metallurgy and lubricants technology.:-) My POV is that
>> it's something the EPA is ramming down our throats by way of the auto mfrs
>> as an "energy conserving" measure. The difference in mpg is barely
>> measurable and easily voided by different individual driving habits.
>
>I saw the spec sheet for Havoline motor oil. All weights from 5W-30
>to 20W-50 and single weights contained 0.103% zinc (by weight). The
>exception was 5W-20, which is 0.112%. A zinc compound is an anti-wear
>additive - right?
>
><http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/c88c682625e06af6882568db00737ce8/d1099203c4293c4f88256b5600791e6c/$FILE/PCMO-2210.pdf>
>
>BTW - I've suspected that Chevron Supreme motor oil may be the same
>since the ChevronTexaco merger. However - the spec sheet seems to be
>different.
>
><http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/c88c682625e06af6882568db00737ce8/c748bacbd316e79a88256a0000786813/$FILE/PCMO-20.pdf>

Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate, ZDDP, was the usual anti-wear additive, which
has been forcibly reduced by new regs and the auto mfrs. The more recent
anti-wear additive is molybdenum dialkyl dithiocarbamate. As for the
difference between Chevron/Texaco lubes, the Equilon/Motiva settlement had
a delayed effect which varied in differing parts of the country due to the
FCC ruling on the merger/breakup. Only recently have some of the Texaco
gas stations converted to Shell here in the N.East; I believe, in the West
things may have happened earlier with a conversion to Chevron. I've no
idea what Chevron's plans are for the other Texaco brand names - probably
depends on the market.

>>>Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?
>>
>>
>> My opinion: the 5W/30 willl give you a slight extra margin of engine
>> protection, over the 5W/20, at high ambient temps, say >90F. I'd use the
>> 5W/30. In fact, if you don't live in the frost belt, I'd use 10W/30.
>>
>> The next time you go to the Honda/Acura dealer parts dept, they may have a
>> counter mat which lists the oil grade reqts by model. Take a good look at
>> at it and ask yourself why Honda still recommends 10W/30 for the S2000 and
>> NSX.
>
>These are extremely high revving engines. However - the Integra GS-R
>and other DOHC VTEC engines are similar and 5W-30 is the recommended
>weight.

Even that was not always the case - for the earlier models, e.g. for the
'92 GS-R, 5W/30 was only approved up to ambient temps of 32F[sic], while
the 10W/30 was indicated as good down to 0F. I don't believe there has
been that much improvement in lubricants since then and there has been a
reduction in anti-wear additive... with the more recent replacement by
MoDDC. I *am* wary of the auto mfrs' willingness to experiment with the
longevity of *our* vehicles.

> MY new WRX recommends 5W-30, but says 10W-30 and 10W-40(??)
>are acceptable for normal driving above. The manual even advises
>using 30, 40, 20W-40, or 20W-50 if you're towing or it's really hot.
>Europeans are used to using heavier grades (with longer drains), and
>their motor oils are subject to a higher standard than API SL. OTOH -
>they typically won't keep a car beyond maybe 60K miles.

"Higher standard"? I'm pretty sure the API spec'd lubricants would pass
any of the equivalent Euro specs.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<103o7eecej2ehb1@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Steve" <abc@123.com> wrote in message
> news:edUZb.32720$Xp.137125@attbi_s54...
> > My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
> > owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
> > "5W-20".
> >
> > I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
> > they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
> > to stock).
> >
> > Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
> > weight) ?
> >
> > Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?
>
> I suspect that the only consequence of using slightly thicker oil in your
> Civic would be some reduction in fuel economy.
>
> Honda branded motor oil is 10W-30 oils when they sell their vehicles in
> Australia.
> http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm click on Honda oil
>
> Some good 5W-20 oils include Motorcraft 5W-20, Pennzoil "SUV, Truck,
> Minivan" 5W-20 and Castrol Syntec Blend 5W-20. All three of these are part
> dino oil, part synthetic and have yielded good oil analysis results as
> posted on the discussion board at:

There is some controversy over whether or not Castrol North America's
current "Syntec" is really synthetic. It's a type III base oil, if I
recall correctly. The strange thing about Motorcraft 5W-20, is every
place I've seen it, the price is substantially higher than the other
Motorcraft oil weights - like $1.81/qt vs $1.20/qt for 5W-30. The
cheapest 5W-20 oil I've seen is Coastal (at AutoZone).

> Go to:
>
> http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...?ubb=forum;f=3
>
> Search on Honda. You will find lots of results of various oils in use in
> Hondas including both 5W-20 and other grades.

y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The strange thing about Motorcraft 5W-20, is every
> place I've seen it, the price is substantially higher than the other
> Motorcraft oil weights - like $1.81/qt vs $1.20/qt for 5W-30. The
> cheapest 5W-20 oil I've seen is Coastal (at AutoZone).

It's $1.30 at wal-mart.

On 2/21/04 8:11 PM, in article edUZb.32720$Xp.137125@attbi_s54, "Steve"
<abc@123.com> wrote:

> My 2003 HX coupe (CVT trans.) calls for 5W-20 motor oil. It says so in the
> owners' manual and there's a sticker right on the engine block that says
> "5W-20".
>
> I'm due for an oil change but none of the places around me have 5W-20 --
> they all tell me just to use 5W-30 (which is all anybody around here seems
> to stock).
>
> Q: Why does the HX coupe w/CVT call for 5W-20 (instead of a more "common"
> weight) ?
>
> Q: If I use 5W-30 (instead of 5W-20), what are the consequences?
>
>
>

Every car I've ever owned had a table in the owners manual that showed what
weight oils could be used for various ambient temperature ranges. Have they
stopped putting this in the book? If its in there, I'll bet 5w-30 is on it.

SP@M.com (Bebop) wrote in message news:<1g9qm17.11ipp6xyv99gaN%SP@M.com>...
> y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The strange thing about Motorcraft 5W-20, is every
> > place I've seen it, the price is substantially higher than the other
> > Motorcraft oil weights - like $1.81/qt vs $1.20/qt for 5W-30. The
> > cheapest 5W-20 oil I've seen is Coastal (at AutoZone).
>
> It's $1.30 at wal-mart.

I was buying oil at Wal-mart (Union City, California) last night. I
saw Motorcraft 5W-20 was $1.81/quart while 5W-30, 10W-30, and 20W-50
was $1.36/quart. Of course every Wal-Mart has it's own prices set
differently (the 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $2 more at another
Wal-Mart just 10 miles North).

Motorcraft 5W-20 is labelled "semi-synthetic", while the other weights
aren't. I think the 5W-20 label said it was a blend of synthetic and
hydrocracked base oils, while the other weights just said they used
hydrocracked base oils.