Honda Car Forum

Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.

The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
it took abt 20 trials.)
Suspecting that the trouble
was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
juice every time when the switch is thrown.
1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
seeping on them from the block?
2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling

the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection
bolt?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
I hope there is someone who remembers those beauties.
Alex

I had exactly the same symptoms on my 1978 civic 1200 Hondamatic last
summer. It was the switch on the starter itself. I simply removed the
starter and cleaned the contacts on the switch. There was also some wear on
the contacts but after a cleaning with a wire brush and contact cleaner it
worked just fine.

As for starter removal, there are just two bolts. One is obvious if you
look at it from the top. The other one is not so obvious because it is
underneath and you have to remove it from the engine side. I was able to do
it with the engine in no problem.

"Alex Ostapenko" <ao03@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:402BC873.8420A97C@lehigh.edu...
> Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.
>
> The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
> is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
> in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
> and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
> more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
> morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
> 5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
> trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
> to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
> fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
> it took abt 20 trials.)
> Suspecting that the trouble
> was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
> connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
> separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
> The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
> My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
> magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
> juice every time when the switch is thrown.
> 1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
> seeping on them from the block?
> 2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
> whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling
>
> the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection
> bolt?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
> I hope there is someone who remembers those beauties.
> Alex
>

Norm: Thank you for sharing your experience. Now I have the week end cut out

for me to get dirty. By the way, what is the contact cleaner?
I assume that I may have to remove the battery to make more room to move
around. Thanks again, and enjoy the week end. Alex
==============================
Norm wrote:

> I had exactly the same symptoms on my 1978 civic 1200 Hondamatic last
> summer. It was the switch on the starter itself. I simply removed the
> starter and cleaned the contacts on the switch. There was also some wear on
> the contacts but after a cleaning with a wire brush and contact cleaner it
> worked just fine.
>
> As for starter removal, there are just two bolts. One is obvious if you
> look at it from the top. The other one is not so obvious because it is
> underneath and you have to remove it from the engine side. I was able to do
> it with the engine in no problem.
> =================
> "Alex Ostapenko" <ao03@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
> news:402BC873.8420A97C@lehigh.edu...
> > Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.
> >> The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
> > is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
> > in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
> > and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
> > more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
> > morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
> > 5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
> > trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
> > to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
> > fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
> > it took abt 20 trials.)
> > Suspecting that the trouble
> > was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
> > connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
> > separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
> > The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
> > My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
> > magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
> > juice every time when the switch is thrown.
> > 1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
> > seeping on them from the block?
> > 2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
> > whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling
> > the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection bolt?
>
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
> > I hope there is someone who remembers those beauties.
> > Alex

On 2/12/04 10:57 PM, in article IOYWb.34571$Qa3.2802@edtnps89, "Norm"
<thenorm@telusSUCKS.net> wrote:

> I had exactly the same symptoms on my 1978 civic 1200 Hondamatic last
> summer. It was the switch on the starter itself. I simply removed the
> starter and cleaned the contacts on the switch. There was also some wear on
> the contacts but after a cleaning with a wire brush and contact cleaner it
> worked just fine.
>
> As for starter removal, there are just two bolts. One is obvious if you
> look at it from the top. The other one is not so obvious because it is
> underneath and you have to remove it from the engine side. I was able to do
> it with the engine in no problem.
>
> "Alex Ostapenko" <ao03@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
> news:402BC873.8420A97C@lehigh.edu...
>> Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.
>>
>> The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
>> is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
>> in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
>> and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
>> more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
>> morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
>> 5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
>> trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
>> to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
>> fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
>> it took abt 20 trials.)
>> Suspecting that the trouble
>> was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
>> connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
>> separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
>> The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
>> My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
>> magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
>> juice every time when the switch is thrown.
>> 1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
>> seeping on them from the block?
>> 2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
>> whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling
>>
>> the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection
>> bolt?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
>> I hope there is someone who remembers those beauties.
>> Alex
>>
>
>

You might want to check the easy stuff first before taking things apart.
This is more often a symptom of a weak battery or corroded cable connections
at the battery.

E. Meyer: Thanks for reminding. But the battery and its terminal connections
were the first things I checked out, and they are OK. Once the starter engages,
it cranks very lively and starts the engine. Alex
============
"E. Meyer" wrote:
On 2/12/04 10:57 PM, in article IOYWb.34571$Qa3.2802@edtnps89, "Norm"

> <thenorm@telusSUCKS.net> wrote:
> > I had exactly the same symptoms on my 1978 civic 1200 Hondamatic last
> > summer. It was the switch on the starter itself. I simply removed the
> > starter and cleaned the contacts on the switch. There was also some wear on
> > the contacts but after a cleaning with a wire brush and contact cleaner it
> > worked just fine.
> > As for starter removal, there are just two bolts. One is obvious if you
> > look at it from the top. The other one is not so obvious because it is
> > underneath and you have to remove it from the engine side. I was able to do
> > it with the engine in no problem.
> =====>
> > "Alex Ostapenko" <ao03@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
> > news:402BC873.8420A97C@lehigh.edu...
> >> Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.
> >>
> >> The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
> >> is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
> >> in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
> >> and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
> >> more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
> >> morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
> >> 5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
> >> trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
> >> to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
> >> fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
> >> it took abt 20 trials.)
> >> Suspecting that the trouble
> >> was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
> >> connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
> >> separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
> >> The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
> >> My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
> >> magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
> >> juice every time when the switch is thrown.
> >> 1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
> >> seeping on them from the block?
> >> 2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
> >> whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling
> >> the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection bolt?
> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
> >> I hope there is someone who remembers those
> beauties Alex
>
> You might want to check the easy stuff first before taking things apart.
> This is more often a symptom of a weak battery or corroded cable connections
> at the battery.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:13:32 -0500, Alex Ostapenko <ao03@lehigh.edu> wrote:

>E. Meyer: Thanks for reminding. But the battery and its terminal connections
>were the first things I checked out, and they are OK. Once the starter engages,
>it cranks very lively and starts the engine. Alex

Have you checked the other end of the ground cable though, where it
connects to the body and trans/engine? On a car that age it's not unusual
to have corrosion there.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Gentlemen:
Thank you all for the suggestions. The past Sunday (Feb 15), I pulled
the starter out
(Norm, thanks for your hint). Unfortunately, the compartment with
contacts on this
solenoid is crimp-sealed and cannot be opened as described in the repair
manual.
(There, the picture and the procedure are for a bolted-on cover.
Different model? ).
In the process of re-assembly, I cleaned all the connections and
re-installed the
starter. Now, the engine fires up right away. Apparently, the
suggestions on just
cleaning the connections were correct. However, I don't think that the
connection
from the solenoid to the starter could have been cleaned without taking
out the
starter.
Well, thank you for your responses. Alex


Alex Ostapenko wrote:

> Hello, Honda experts! I hope you can help me.
>
> The starter in my '78 Honda Civic(Model1200 with only 100k on it!)
> is acting up. On turning the ignition key, there is a click
> in the starter, but no cranking. Sometimes, there is cranking,
> and the engine starts. But most often it takes two, three or
> more trials. There seems to be no regularity. For example, one
> morning it took 2 trials to start, but after driving just abt
> 5 minutes to the post office and stepping in for stamps, 4
> trials were needed to restart the engine. Cold weather appears
> to cause more trouble, but often, even after the engine had been
> fully warmed up, the starter acts up. (One cold morning - 10 degr F,
> it took abt 20 trials.)
> Suspecting that the trouble
> was somewhere between the ignition lock and the control cable
> connection at the starter, I pulled off the cable and used a
> separate wire to jump directly to the battery terminal.
> The starter behaved the same way as by using the ignition key.
> My impression is that the trouble is with the contacts of the
> magnetic switch, so that the main coils of the plunger don't get
> juice every time when the switch is thrown.
> 1) Could the contacts be worn or dirtied by the oil somehow
> seeping on them from the block?
> 2) The space around the starter is so cramped that I wonder
> whether it is possible to take the starter out without pulling
>
> the engine? Is there a way of getting to the lower connection
> bolt?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions for curing the beast.
> I hope there is someone who remembers those beauties.
> Alex