Honda Car Forum

I purchased a 2004 Civic Hybrid CVT from Bellevue of Honda (Washington
state) in September 2003... When I originally got the car I was
getting 45 to 50 MPG for an entire tank of gas (it is only rated at 48
city/47 highway).

Since then the mileage has decreased steadily to its current max of 35
to 37 MPG.

I have taken it in to Honda of Bellevue twice (once at 3000 miles and
now at 5500 miles). The first time they told me it was do to the
additives in the gas and the fact that it had a break-in period of
5000 miles. Now (Feb. 10, 2004) I take it in w/ 5500 miles, and only
getting 35 MPG or 420 miles per fill up, they tell me again it is the
additives and that it takes 10000 miles to break in.

I'm feed up... I want to dump this car and never deal w/ Honda of
Bellevue again!!! My sole purpose in buying this car was to get
better mileage then my Honda Accord for my commute. So my question is
what recourse do I have?

I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
gone... complete stupidity).

I will be contacting the state attorney general today to file a
complaint against Honda of Bellevue.

And for those that would say it is my driving habits, the road
conditions, the driving conditions, or the fuel additives... I would
use the comparison of my last two cars (1989 Ford Escort and 1995
Honda Accord LX) both of those I never had a problem maintaining the
EPA rated MPG (plus or minus 2 MPG) for either of those cars and I
used the same gas, drove in the same conditions, and the same amount
of traffic and back roads...


I'd appreciate hearing from anyone else with similar complaints or a
history of dealing w/ Honda in these types of cases (especially those
in WA state).

Many thanks in advance,
Roger

"roger beniot" <roger_beniot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6c7aa9be.0402100847.5406a4d3@posting.google.c om...
>
> I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
> Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
> it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
> gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
> gone... complete stupidity).

Why do you believe accurately documenting the mileage is stupid?

"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:608Wb.11092$TPZ.10717@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
>
> "roger beniot" <roger_beniot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6c7aa9be.0402100847.5406a4d3@posting.google.c om...
> >
> > I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
> > Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
> > it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
> > gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
> > gone... complete stupidity).
>
> Why do you believe accurately documenting the mileage is stupid?
>
>

accurate my ass. who says they arent mashing the gas? how do you know they
arent riding the brake? how do you know they arent speeding? i RARELY trust
dealerships... let alone ones who want to fill it up with 2 gallons and then
run it out to 'test the mileage'. sounds like a cop-out to me and they dont
want to take responsibility.


-agent smith

It's obvious that something is wrong and the service guys you've been
dealing with aren't competent or interested enough to solve the problem.

You've got to escalate this and stop dealing with people who are only
empowered to pass the buck and say no to you.

Here are a few things you should do:

Find out what the lemon laws are in Washington and demand the dealership
follow them.

Talk to the Dealership manager and tell him you're going to take legal
action if they don't solve your problem.

Contact Honda of America.

Get a lawyer.

Good luck.

Alex
"roger beniot" <roger_beniot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6c7aa9be.0402100847.5406a4d3@posting.google.c om...
> I purchased a 2004 Civic Hybrid CVT from Bellevue of Honda (Washington
> state) in September 2003... When I originally got the car I was
> getting 45 to 50 MPG for an entire tank of gas (it is only rated at 48
> city/47 highway).
>
> Since then the mileage has decreased steadily to its current max of 35
> to 37 MPG.
>
> I have taken it in to Honda of Bellevue twice (once at 3000 miles and
> now at 5500 miles). The first time they told me it was do to the
> additives in the gas and the fact that it had a break-in period of
> 5000 miles. Now (Feb. 10, 2004) I take it in w/ 5500 miles, and only
> getting 35 MPG or 420 miles per fill up, they tell me again it is the
> additives and that it takes 10000 miles to break in.
>
> I'm feed up... I want to dump this car and never deal w/ Honda of
> Bellevue again!!! My sole purpose in buying this car was to get
> better mileage then my Honda Accord for my commute. So my question is
> what recourse do I have?
>
> I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
> Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
> it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
> gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
> gone... complete stupidity).
>
> I will be contacting the state attorney general today to file a
> complaint against Honda of Bellevue.
>
> And for those that would say it is my driving habits, the road
> conditions, the driving conditions, or the fuel additives... I would
> use the comparison of my last two cars (1989 Ford Escort and 1995
> Honda Accord LX) both of those I never had a problem maintaining the
> EPA rated MPG (plus or minus 2 MPG) for either of those cars and I
> used the same gas, drove in the same conditions, and the same amount
> of traffic and back roads...
>
>
> I'd appreciate hearing from anyone else with similar complaints or a
> history of dealing w/ Honda in these types of cases (especially those
> in WA state).
>
> Many thanks in advance,
> Roger

"agent smith" <agentsmith@UNDIES.the-c0re.tk> wrote in message
news:sT9Wb.78$te.0@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:608Wb.11092$TPZ.10717@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
> >
> > "roger beniot" <roger_beniot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:6c7aa9be.0402100847.5406a4d3@posting.google.c om...
> > >
> > > I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
> > > Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
> > > it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
> > > gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
> > > gone... complete stupidity).
> >
> > Why do you believe accurately documenting the mileage is stupid?
> >
> >
>
> accurate my ass. who says they arent mashing the gas? how do you know they
> arent riding the brake? how do you know they arent speeding? i RARELY
trust
> dealerships... let alone ones who want to fill it up with 2 gallons and
then
> run it out to 'test the mileage'. sounds like a cop-out to me and they
dont
> want to take responsibility.

Responsibility for *what*?
Percieved poor mileage?
lol...

For them to fix it, they need to determine that there is a _problem._

Yeesh.
Your lack of helpfull suggestions noted, btw.

Some tips I guess:

1. My hybrid didn't start getting really good gas milage till about 8 months
of use (It was around 20k miles at that point). Other wise it was floating
around 40 mpg.

2. Cold weather hurts the milage badly. I find (here in Atlanta) I get -5
mpg when its under 40 degrees. It also won't autostop in cold weather.

Other than that, keep a distinct eye on your real time mpg guage (the bar
under the avg milage display) and attempt to drive where it says it's peak.
Good luck to you.

"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<608Wb.11092
> Why do you believe accurately documenting the mileage is stupid?

I don't necassary have a problem w/ them test it (what I do have a
problem w/ is there testing methods). There are much better ways to
test mileage.

"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<O7aWb.14092
> Responsibility for *what*?
> Percieved poor mileage?
> lol...
>
> For them to fix it, they need to determine that there is a _problem._

There is obviously a problem when you have mileage that is 15 to 20
MPG different then the documented and advertised ammount.

After looking into the WA lemon law I've discovered that this isn't an
issue it covers... WA lemon law only covers issues that are covered by
warranties, and the fuel economy of a vehicle is not covered under any
warranty.

However, it is a Consumer issue.... I have already filed a consumer
complaint w/ the WA State Attorney General's office (and forwarded it
to the Honda dealership). The dealership/Honda manuals have no
documentation to indicate that there is a break in period of either
5000 or 10000 miles.

I am also planning on meeting w/ the manager (dealership or service)
to look into how I was treated and how to resolve the issue. I will
wait to inform Honda of America until I get a written response from
the dealership.

-roger

"Alex M. Stein" <alexmstein@eartnospamhlink.net> wrote in message news:<bW9Wb.18752$F23.10105@newsread2.news.pas.ear thlink.net>...
> It's obvious that something is wrong and the service guys you've been
> dealing with aren't competent or interested enough to solve the problem.
>
> You've got to escalate this and stop dealing with people who are only
> empowered to pass the buck and say no to you.
>
> Here are a few things you should do:
>
> Find out what the lemon laws are in Washington and demand the dealership
> follow them.
>
> Talk to the Dealership manager and tell him you're going to take legal
> action if they don't solve your problem.
>
> Contact Honda of America.
>
> Get a lawyer.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Alex

that sucks to hear about your situation, there's definitely something wrong
when you're getting the same mileage a non-hybrid Civic. keep us informed of
any updates, I'd like to see how this gets resolved.