Honda Car Forum

I know this is the wrong news group to talk about VW's, but I have already
had a 99' accord and a 02 Civic EX. I am considering the new VW GTi, I like
the safety features and standard as well as optional extras, and when you
can get one nearly loaded for 21,500. that's not bad. I was wondering since
the price is close to an Accord LX, what is the reliability/drivability like
if anyone has had a GTi???

Thanks,

In article <I8cVb.18035$uM2.2374@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>,
"Thomas Cooke" <tomboy83@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know this is the wrong news group to talk about VW's, but I have already
> had a 99' accord and a 02 Civic EX. I am considering the new VW GTi, I like
> the safety features and standard as well as optional extras, and when you
> can get one nearly loaded for 21,500. that's not bad. I was wondering since
> the price is close to an Accord LX, what is the reliability/drivability like
> if anyone has had a GTi???

VW in general: if you're used to a Honda, you'll be sorely disappointed
after the first 30K miles or so.

They're a freaking blast to drive, when they're on the road. It's the
entire ownership thing that's hard to take, after you've had a Honda.

I had a fling with a Jetta VR6. I went from my flawless 125K mile Civic
Si to this Jetta. Man oh man, on the road it was incredible. But...the
little things were wrong, and it just had too many things going wrong
with it. And the overall design of subsystems and parts was just
*wrong* in many cases.

The Germans love their cars, and expect to be involved with their cars.
They make design decisions that make sense to them, but are just plain
weird to someone who just wants a car to drive. Their thing is being
involved with the car at all levels; they made the design decisions
based on that mentality. Why *wouldn't* a driver want it they way
they've done it? is what they're thinking.

After my short (9 month) fling with the Jetta, I went back--to a 2000
Accord. Man oh man, I now know why the car magazines flat out love
Hondas. Everything is just *right*--from the height of the center
armrest to the design of the dash to every other detail about the car,
even the invisible details that make the thing feel like your favorite
pair of shoes.

The VW is your mistress. The Honda is the wife you come home to, head
bowed, asking for forgiveness. The Honda isn't flashy like the VW, and
it's not the same roadgoing experience--which is fine. It's still a
great roadgoing experience, and you're happy to have it do what it does
when you consider that in context with the rest of the package.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-B002DC.16430607022004@news.usenetserver.com...
I have to agree with everything shag says. But the '03/'04 Accords are even
better than previous year Accords if you like the characteristics of vdubs;
not interested in any vw bigot flames about how Hondas are appliances for
the soulless masses - but the Accords now have a more european car feel to
them. While I don't like the pedal feel and steering input as much as vw,
they're getting close. Seats are firmer, steering wheel is thicker, and the
stock suspension is pretty stiff these days. I also like the dead pedal and
telescopic steering column. The shock/spring/tire setups were downright
lousy on vw for a long time and you had to upgrade them if you preferred a
tighter and stiffer ride. It must be aging, but I was diehard vw gti for
years but now drive an 03 Accord - overall I just like it better than what
vw has now (was looking at a Jetta). Forgot to add, you should be able to
get an LX for a lot less than 21.5 - I just got an 04 for 17,982.

In article
<csjVb.196030$6y6.3904105@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"K5" <K56522@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-B002DC.16430607022004@news.usenetserver.com...
> I have to agree with everything shag says. But the '03/'04 Accords are even
> better than previous year Accords if you like the characteristics of vdubs;
> not interested in any vw bigot flames about how Hondas are appliances for
> the soulless masses - but the Accords now have a more european car feel to
> them. While I don't like the pedal feel and steering input as much as vw,
> they're getting close. Seats are firmer, steering wheel is thicker, and the
> stock suspension is pretty stiff these days. I also like the dead pedal and
> telescopic steering column. The shock/spring/tire setups were downright
> lousy on vw for a long time and you had to upgrade them if you preferred a
> tighter and stiffer ride. It must be aging, but I was diehard vw gti for
> years but now drive an 03 Accord - overall I just like it better than what
> vw has now (was looking at a Jetta). Forgot to add, you should be able to
> get an LX for a lot less than 21.5 - I just got an 04 for 17,982.
>
>

Yeah but what does a GTi have to do with an Accord. The Accord IS a
boring car but it has nothing to do with a GTi. I mean if you are
looking at a GTi you should look at an RSX which competes with it. The
Accord is a big slow boring sedan. Obviously it will be much more
functional than a GTI or RSX but the Accord is one boring car to drive
(I find the newer one as boring as my Odyssey and more boring than my
2001 Acc EX V6). But boring is the point with the Accord, its a
mid-range family car that is reliable and still somewhat fun to drive
(compared to its competitors: i.e., the Camry, Taurus, etc.).

"SA" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:nospam-7D92C3.13254908022004@news.la.sbcglobal.net...

> Yeah but what does a GTi have to do with an Accord.

It gets to look at its tailights in a drag race, for one thing...

The Accord IS a
> boring car but it has nothing to do with a GTi. I mean if you are
> looking at a GTi you should look at an RSX which competes with it. The
> Accord is a big slow boring sedan.

Slow?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7011
Accord V-6 Coupe 0-60 7.0 sec

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=2022
GTI V-6 0-60 7.7sec.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:46:32 GMT, "Thomas Cooke" <tomboy83@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I know this is the wrong news group to talk about VW's, but I have already
>had a 99' accord and a 02 Civic EX. I am considering the new VW GTi, I like
>the safety features and standard as well as optional extras, and when you
>can get one nearly loaded for 21,500. that's not bad. I was wondering since
>the price is close to an Accord LX, what is the reliability/drivability like
>if anyone has had a GTi???

Go to the discussion forum at www.edmunds.com for VW models - the cars are
loaded with gadgets... which break and break and break. Some of the basics
also seem prone to break - ongoing problems with gearboxes, electricals
like locks, windows etc. When I drove a 1.8T a while back I nearly got
sucked in - maybe would have if the dealer had not tried to steal my old
Camry - it was such a blast to drive. Fortunately the Honda dealer was
easier to haggle with and our Accord has been good so far - like all
previous Hondas I've owned, never even been seen by the dealer since it
left their lot. All maintenance DIY and no warranty visits required.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

In article <fpad201s66nirfa39mkmd03jusaqt4khuf@4ax.com>,
George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

> Go to the discussion forum at www.edmunds.com for VW models - the cars are
> loaded with gadgets... which break and break and break. Some of the basics
> also seem prone to break - ongoing problems with gearboxes, electricals
> like locks, windows etc.

Oh yeah--I forgot to mention the German electrics. They're worse than
anything Lucas ever put out.

Pay attention to German cars with burned-out brake and tail lights, for
example. Then pay attention to Hondas with the same.

VW had what I'm sure someone thought of as a great idea: let's put an
amplified antenna on the roof of the car, mounted in the rear. Oh,
yeah--and then let's put the amplifier electronics OUTSIDE the car, in
the base of the antenna. Guess what happens when that antenna gasket
breaks, as they all do? That's right--the amplifier dies, and you get
no reception. Now we're into a new $100 antenna. And that's just the
part; now we have to pull the headliner just to get to it.

And while we're there, let's sand and scrape the corrosion away from the
mounting nut so that there's a good ground, which is necessary for the
whole thing to work.

Compare that to the 98-02 Accord antenna in the rear glass. Whatever
they've done, it just flat works--and there's nothing exposed to the
weather.

This is just one example of an important electrical detail that VW got
monstrously wrong, which Honda got right.

"SA" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:nospam-7D92C3.13254908022004@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
> Yeah but what does a GTi have to do with an Accord. The Accord IS a
> boring car but it has nothing to do with a GTi. I mean if you are
> looking at a GTi you should look at an RSX which competes with it.
The point - that you missed - is that this was a comparison of some
characteristics of two cars that are not of the same type. But thanks for
pointing out the obvious.

As a Mechanic at a Lexus delership I will tell you this. Germans do NOT
design their car with any semblance of making sense. They SUCK ASS to work
on!! Japs know how to build cars, that are easy to use by the consumer and
easy for the technician to repair. They design things in a manner that
dosent require the customer to pay outrageous labor charges to install
either. heres an Example: Brake Job on a Lexus 325.00 per axle for sedans
thats Resurfacing rotors New pads, Hardware and caliper bolts, and
rebuilding the caliper assmblies. On many german cars the rotors cant be
resurfaced with out extensice machining because their pads chew monster
sized grooves in the rotor. So apply that laborrate taht I quoted with
approx. 160-200 per axle for new rotors as well.
Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-6B77B4.18380008022004@news.usenetserver.com...
> In article <fpad201s66nirfa39mkmd03jusaqt4khuf@4ax.com>,
> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>
> > Go to the discussion forum at www.edmunds.com for VW models - the cars
are
> > loaded with gadgets... which break and break and break. Some of the
basics
> > also seem prone to break - ongoing problems with gearboxes, electricals
> > like locks, windows etc.
>
> Oh yeah--I forgot to mention the German electrics. They're worse than
> anything Lucas ever put out.
>
> Pay attention to German cars with burned-out brake and tail lights, for
> example. Then pay attention to Hondas with the same.
>
> VW had what I'm sure someone thought of as a great idea: let's put an
> amplified antenna on the roof of the car, mounted in the rear. Oh,
> yeah--and then let's put the amplifier electronics OUTSIDE the car, in
> the base of the antenna. Guess what happens when that antenna gasket
> breaks, as they all do? That's right--the amplifier dies, and you get
> no reception. Now we're into a new $100 antenna. And that's just the
> part; now we have to pull the headliner just to get to it.
>
> And while we're there, let's sand and scrape the corrosion away from the
> mounting nut so that there's a good ground, which is necessary for the
> whole thing to work.
>
> Compare that to the 98-02 Accord antenna in the rear glass. Whatever
> they've done, it just flat works--and there's nothing exposed to the
> weather.
>
> This is just one example of an important electrical detail that VW got
> monstrously wrong, which Honda got right.
>

Thomas Cooke wrote:
> I know this is the wrong news group to talk about VW's, but I have already
> had a 99' accord and a 02 Civic EX. I am considering the new VW GTi, I like
> the safety features and standard as well as optional extras, and when you
> can get one nearly loaded for 21,500. that's not bad. I was wondering since
> the price is close to an Accord LX, what is the reliability/drivability like
> if anyone has had a GTi???
>
> Thanks,

=============

Having owned a GTI, I just have to throw in my $0.02... They have some
great features, and the GTI (or any VW) is a great vehicle for driving
around with the windows down.

If you hang around at the VW newsgroups, you'll know EXACTLY what I'm
talking about. They seem to do it at the most inconvenient times too.
Never buy a VW if you live more than 45 minute drive from dealer. :-(

'Curly'

===============