Honda Car Forum

Here's a question for you all. I live in Ottawa Canada and I brought
my 2001 Prelude SE into a local Honda dealer to get the 50,000 km
service done. (I won't mention which dealer as I was ultimately happy
with the resolution of my issue...so far.)

So, they did their things and that was that. The next day, I decided
to put snow tires on my car (all four wheels). If I'd been smart, I
would have just brought them to the dealer and told them to change
them when they had the wheels off checking the breaks etc, but I was
in a rush and didn't have time to organize.

Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start with
the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lugnuts off
(duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them off. The
first one alone, I am standing on the lugwrench bouncing up and down,
trying to get it to budge. I weight about 185 pounds. So, there I
am, jumping up and down on the lugwrench and the nut finally starts to
budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater than
going-on torque, but the next day after they were removed/
reinstalled? And to that extent???!

So then get this.... I pull out a guaged torque wrench which tops out
at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with the
next lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale.
So here I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to
believe this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and
stays in the socket which is still on the lugnut on the rim??!! I
flipped it over (double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go
past 220 foot pounds this time) just to see and none of them would
budge. I then removed everyone of them with the lug wrench, each one
of them with me standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to
get them to come off. It took about an hour and a half.

In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
that my lugnuts had been over tightened. My question to all of you
is, what if anything would that have done to my car. My mechanic
neighbour said that it may have warped my rotors? Could it have
happened that fast? Is there anything else that could have happened?
What kind of recourse will I have with Honda if something does happen?
Ideas? Thanks,

Rob

In article <e29ccc85.0402042115.69783900@posting.google.com >,
bertbarndoor@hotmail.com (Rob B) wrote:

> Here's a question for you all. I live in Ottawa Canada and I brought
> my 2001 Prelude SE into a local Honda dealer to get the 50,000 km
> service done. (I won't mention which dealer as I was ultimately happy
> with the resolution of my issue...so far.)
>
> So, they did their things and that was that. The next day, I decided
> to put snow tires on my car (all four wheels). If I'd been smart, I
> would have just brought them to the dealer and told them to change
> them when they had the wheels off checking the breaks etc, but I was
> in a rush and didn't have time to organize.
>
> Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start with
> the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lugnuts off
> (duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them off. The
> first one alone, I am standing on the lugwrench bouncing up and down,
> trying to get it to budge. I weight about 185 pounds. So, there I
> am, jumping up and down on the lugwrench and the nut finally starts to
> budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater than
> going-on torque, but the next day after they were removed/
> reinstalled? And to that extent???!
>
> So then get this.... I pull out a guaged torque wrench which tops out
> at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with the
> next lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale.
> So here I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to
> believe this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and
> stays in the socket which is still on the lugnut on the rim??!! I
> flipped it over (double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go
> past 220 foot pounds this time) just to see and none of them would
> budge. I then removed everyone of them with the lug wrench, each one
> of them with me standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to
> get them to come off. It took about an hour and a half.
>
> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
> that my lugnuts had been over tightened. My question to all of you
> is, what if anything would that have done to my car. My mechanic
> neighbour said that it may have warped my rotors? Could it have
> happened that fast? Is there anything else that could have happened?
> What kind of recourse will I have with Honda if something does happen?
> Ideas? Thanks,
>
> Rob

It can stretch the bolts and bend the rims. Make sure the lugnuts still
go on smoothly and you don't have any new wheel vibration.

Now lets see if you can get your oil filter off after their free oil
change

Rob B wrote:
> Here's a question for you all. I live in Ottawa Canada and I brought
> my 2001 Prelude SE into a local Honda dealer to get the 50,000 km
> service done. (I won't mention which dealer as I was ultimately happy
> with the resolution of my issue...so far.)
>
> So, they did their things and that was that. The next day, I decided
> to put snow tires on my car (all four wheels). If I'd been smart, I
> would have just brought them to the dealer and told them to change
> them when they had the wheels off checking the breaks etc, but I was
> in a rush and didn't have time to organize.
>
> Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start with
> the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lugnuts off
> (duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them off. The
> first one alone, I am standing on the lugwrench bouncing up and down,
> trying to get it to budge. I weight about 185 pounds. So, there I
> am, jumping up and down on the lugwrench and the nut finally starts to
> budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater than
> going-on torque, but the next day after they were removed/
> reinstalled? And to that extent???!
>
> So then get this.... I pull out a guaged torque wrench which tops out
> at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with the
> next lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale.
> So here I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to
> believe this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and
> stays in the socket which is still on the lugnut on the rim??!! I
> flipped it over (double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go
> past 220 foot pounds this time) just to see and none of them would
> budge. I then removed everyone of them with the lug wrench, each one
> of them with me standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to
> get them to come off. It took about an hour and a half.
>
> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
> that my lugnuts had been over tightened. My question to all of you
> is, what if anything would that have done to my car. My mechanic
> neighbour said that it may have warped my rotors? Could it have
> happened that fast? Is there anything else that could have happened?
> What kind of recourse will I have with Honda if something does happen?
> Ideas? Thanks,
>
> Rob


==============

Rob,

A search in the 'groups' section of Google.ca would find you lots of
hits about the terms: honda rotor warped.

I even posted to the group when I found that my Honda dealer torqued all
my wheels perfectly (Millwoods Honda Edmonton)

I don't have much of an opinion about the warping myself, but if you
have ANY problem with oscillation when stopping, make sure you print out
some of the articles you find, so you can demand new rotors all the way
around. :-(

You should have had a video of yourself jumping like a gorilla on the
wrench. Serious error.

'Curly'

Rob B wrote:
> Here's a question for you all. I live in Ottawa Canada and I brought
> my 2001 Prelude SE into a local Honda dealer

<SNIP>
> neighbour said that it may have warped my rotors? Could it have
> happened that fast? Is there anything else that could have happened?
> What kind of recourse will I have with Honda if something does happen?
> Ideas? Thanks,
>
> Rob
===============

Rob,

I thought of something else. Maybe it's worth your while to inspect the
bolts on the microscopic level to be sure the threads aren't 'leaning'
outward. That's a heck of a lot of torque.

'Curly'

==============

Rob B wrote:

(real mess snipped)

> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
> that my lugnuts had been over tightened. My question to all of you
> is, what if anything would that have done to my car. My mechanic
> neighbour said that it may have warped my rotors? Could it have
> happened that fast? Is there anything else that could have happened?
> What kind of recourse will I have with Honda if something does happen?
> Ideas? Thanks,

A free oil change - call out the Guinness team!

I'm pretty certain you won't/don't have a valid claim against Honda
(unless Canadian law differs from US in this respect). You surely have a
claim against the dealer, however.

I have retorqued the lug nuts on all my cars for > 25 years (going back
to my Porsche 911 days) precisely because of this problem, i.e., the
dealers/tire people/etc. use pneumatic tools. I bought a good (Snap-On)
torque wrench last summer after I bought my Accord because my old torque
wrench didn't go high enough for Honda's spec ("Snap-On's expensive" I
hear many say, but it's professional quality and will last a lifetime -
bad idea to skimp on tools).

HTH

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

> In article <e29ccc85.0402042115.69783900@posting.google.com >,
> bertbarndoor@hotmail.com (Rob B) wrote:

(snip)

> Now lets see if you can get your oil filter off after their free oil
> change

LOL - good point! :-D

On 4 Feb 2004 21:15:48 -0800, bertbarndoor@hotmail.com (Rob B) wrote:

> I live in Ottawa Canada

Try Plus 1 Performance
Honda & Acura specialists in Bell's Corners
behind Eastside Marios.

"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:btg420di03djartdbc1e705vpqikb1v7cq@4ax.com...
> On 4 Feb 2004 21:15:48 -0800, bertbarndoor@hotmail.com (Rob B) wrote:
>
> > I live in Ottawa Canada
>
> Try Plus 1 Performance
> Honda & Acura specialists in Bell's Corners
> behind Eastside Marios.

Hmm.
Stopped in there one day when I was working in the area, looking for a
stainless steel cat-back exhaust for my Accord.

The gave me a look like a cow looking at a new fence.
They couldn't even get a price on one.

"Performance"? I don't think so.

I do the same as Gus. Take everything apart and re-torque it to
avoid rotor warp. If I don't there's eventual hell to pay every time.
BUT, after a rotation a few months ago I realized that they actually
had everything done right. It was truly a shame to disassemble a
professional job. First time I can remember in quite a few years.

If the torque was applied EVENLY, then there is less chance that the
rotors were warped.

If you have alloy wheels, especially cast instead of forged, there is
a chance that they are now cracked.

You will probably have spalling on the stud threads which will give
problems in the future as the nuts start sticking.

I had the same experience 2 years ago. At least 250 ft-lbs, the max
that the air tool could produce. Clearly the tech didn't give a
damn.* Took a year before I had to replace the studs and nuts. This
is not inexpensive, by the way.

*If he really doesn't like you, he won't start the nut by hand, but
will just jam it all the way down missing most of the threads. Nice
and secure, and will result in having to break off every stud at your
next rotation.

JM

> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
> that my lugnuts had been over tightened.

It sounds like they let 'er rip with the air wrench putting your wheels back
on.

Check the mating surface of the rims closely where the lug nut contacts the
rim. They may have distorted or even stress cracked them.

I would be very reluctant to let a shop like that work on my vehicles.

John