Honda Car Forum

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:56:28 -0500, pars <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The Accord Coupe is too tame to carry the lude's baton. The RSX-S was
> >suppose to be a replacement, but it's a totally different beast. (I
> >Personaly felt more more at home in the Lude at the extreme, even thow
> >the RSX fit my frame perfectly). I haven't tested the MX-8, but I think
> >it would make a perfect replacement for the Lude, but the dam thing
> >guzzles too much gas.> >
> >Pars
> >98 Civic Hatch
>
> Assume you mean the Mazda RX-8. Great handling, good power and
> appalling fuel economy. The fact that it weighs over 3000 pounds
> isn't helping much.



Interesting, I would expect the MX-8 to be a light weight (especially
when factoring the low torque engine). It's strange that edmunds.com
doesn't have the curb weight when they spec'd this car. .. I wonder how
well the rotary engine would behave in a hybrid configuration...

>
> The TSX might be closer in concept to the Prelude, although I don't
> think the RSX-S is that much different. Personally, I will keep my
> GS-R.

A stripped down version of the TSX, with less luxury and less weight
would definitely be an option for the more performance oriented Lude.

>
> LP is right, of course, that the S2000 is not intended to replace the
> Prelude. However, if the price, interior size and summertime
> orientation are not an issue, I wouldn't worry about body stiffness
> and weight. Honda did a great job controlling flex in this chassis
> and at 2790 pounds it is still lighter than any of the alternatives
> mentioned so far. And it even has 2 more hp than the RX-8.

Top down doesn't make sense here in Canada, unless u've got $$$ and
space for storing the car. It doesn't help that most insurance company
are nolonger giving an adequate discount for the 2nd car.

Pars

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:18:55 -0500, pars <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:56:28 -0500, pars <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The Accord Coupe is too tame to carry the lude's baton. The RSX-S was
>> >suppose to be a replacement, but it's a totally different beast. (I
>> >Personaly felt more more at home in the Lude at the extreme, even thow
>> >the RSX fit my frame perfectly). I haven't tested the MX-8, but I think
>> >it would make a perfect replacement for the Lude, but the dam thing
>> >guzzles too much gas.> >
>> >Pars
>> >98 Civic Hatch
>>
>> Assume you mean the Mazda RX-8. Great handling, good power and
>> appalling fuel economy. The fact that it weighs over 3000 pounds
>> isn't helping much.
>
>Interesting, I would expect the MX-8 to be a light weight (especially
>when factoring the low torque engine). It's strange that edmunds.com
>doesn't have the curb weight when they spec'd this car. .. I wonder how
>well the rotary engine would behave in a hybrid configuration...

I think it would be a very good combo - the wankel is very compact
leaving a lot of room for the IMA. The low end torque and milage
boost would noticeably improve the car.

>
>>
>> The TSX might be closer in concept to the Prelude, although I don't
>> think the RSX-S is that much different. Personally, I will keep my
>> GS-R.
>
>A stripped down version of the TSX, with less luxury and less weight
>would definitely be an option for the more performance oriented Lude.
>
>>
>> LP is right, of course, that the S2000 is not intended to replace the
>> Prelude. However, if the price, interior size and summertime
>> orientation are not an issue, I wouldn't worry about body stiffness
>> and weight. Honda did a great job controlling flex in this chassis
>> and at 2790 pounds it is still lighter than any of the alternatives
>> mentioned so far. And it even has 2 more hp than the RX-8.
>
>Top down doesn't make sense here in Canada, unless u've got $$$ and
>space for storing the car. It doesn't help that most insurance company
>are nolonger giving an adequate discount for the 2nd car.
>
>Pars

Even as a hard top, rwd sports cars aren't very good in the winter.
In the summer though, that S2000 would be a delight.

On 2 Jan 2004 05:00:12 -0800, saylo1234@aol.com (LovingPerson) wrote:

>"Carl S. Moore" <carl.moore2@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PK5Jb.726146$Fm2.627816@attbi_s04>...
>> I owned a couple of Preludes in the past...... Like myself,
>> many Prelude drivers graduate up to Acura Integra GSR's
>> once they need 4 doors for the kids........ then maybe
>> TL's when they need more horsepower.
>>
>> Carl

> You are right about having no kids and having a Lude. I don't
>have any kids right now. The Lude is nice and sporty but still a coup
>that tours nicely. I LOVE THE LUDE!! I've looked just a tiny bit
>into the GSR's. They seem to have only 1.7/1.8 liters???!! That is
>kind of small. No?

Compact and light weight - and it screams like a banshee. The car is
a lot lighter than any of the others being discussed so the 170 hp
goes a long way. It is the poster child for the
drive-it-like-you-stole-it enthusiast.

> I suppose I could go test drive the RSX and see how I feel in it.
>Since I know what my Lude feels like, I am going to be pretty
>particular. I would like a car that would re-create the feel of the
>Lude. I hope the RSX can come close. One thing that is concerning on
>the 2002 RSX, at least, is the JD power and associates rates it a 2/5
>for mechanical initial quality (90 day). That seems sucky! I thought
>Hondas/Accuras are supposed to be of high quality/reliability??.

I never thought the JD Power surveys made a lot of sense, particularly
the 90 day survey. The Consumer Reports survey indicates excellent
reliability even after they are more than a year old.

> I've also called a Toyota Dealer to find out about the Celica GTS.
> It does have 180 horses and is a light beast. The guy is really
>cool. He seems really knowledgeable about mods. He sounded like a
>young guy and a motor-head. He says he would be happy to dispense out
>some knowledge about mods when I go in to test drive the GT-S. :-).
>Boy, are we having fun yet? Ain't life grand?
>
>cheers.

The GTS is a pretty close match for the old GS-R or maybe the RSX-S.
The 1.8L has ten more hp and the GTS weighs a little more compared to
the GS-R. Reliability is excellent for all these but so far the RS-X
is actually a little better than the GTS. There are probably some
equivalent Mitsubishi products, but I would stay away form them for
reliability reasons.

"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> Dear all:
>
> I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> and I just knew I had to get it.
>
> It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
>
> I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
>
> So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> itself (ie the sports coup class).
>
> sicnerley, LovingPerson.

As a 5th gen owner (01), the only alternative I can think of would be the
RSX S. The V6 Accord 6 speed is just not the same IMO -- how can you
compare a high revving four with a V6. The Prelude also has a very
different feel. In 01 I opted for the Prelude over the RSX because I just
liked the Prelude more even though the RSX outperforms it.

Dear TWW:

Awesome that are a Gen-Fifth'er. I have been looking for a Gen-5
myself. I found a few by scouring the net which had good prices. I
wonder if you wouldn't mind taking a read on them and see what your
opinion is. I'd most appreciate it if you could dispense some
knowledge this way.

The two cars (2000 and 2001 model) are talked about at length here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&...ing.google.com

thank you very much in advance.



"TWW" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message news:<w6rJb.16066$JD6.5101@lakeread04>...
> "LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> > Dear all:
> >
> > I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> > Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> > and I just knew I had to get it.
> >
> > It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> > the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> > and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> > only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
> >
> > I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> > longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> > generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> > coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> > because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> > and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
> >
> > So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> > thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> > Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> > itself (ie the sports coup class).
> >
> > sicnerley, LovingPerson.
>
> As a 5th gen owner (01), the only alternative I can think of would be the
> RSX S. The V6 Accord 6 speed is just not the same IMO -- how can you
> compare a high revving four with a V6. The Prelude also has a very
> different feel. In 01 I opted for the Prelude over the RSX because I just
> liked the Prelude more even though the RSX outperforms it.

"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0401030319.bf00ba@posting.google.com ...
> Dear TWW:
>
> Awesome that are a Gen-Fifth'er. I have been looking for a Gen-5
> myself. I found a few by scouring the net which had good prices. I
> wonder if you wouldn't mind taking a read on them and see what your
> opinion is. I'd most appreciate it if you could dispense some
> knowledge this way.
>
Am quite a bit older than most Prelude owners, but have been down the sports
car path for many years -- , TR 4, MGB, 64 XKE Jag, Sunbeam Tiger modified,
C3 Vettes, Datsun 280Z, and a few 60s bikes like Triumphs and the CB750.
Used sports cars are driven hard and many are abused, so you have to be
careful. In general., if it has been modified I' stay away from it and that
includes salvage titles. I' look for maintenance records and the usual
signs the car has been taken care of. At a recent car show, I talked to a
kid who have a 5th gen with the usual cheap e-bay tower STB (near useless)
and the an intake which probably added little if any power -- and he boasted
about running the engine to 8k rpm frequently. A good sign of an abused
engine. Since the H22 delivers full power at 7k rpm, I can see little
reason to go past the redline. I drive mine like any sports I have owned in
the past, but I don't abuse it. You may run across a professionally
modified (done by someone who knows what they are doing) 5th gen that may be
OK, so I would not necessarily discount machines of that type. Good luck.


> The two cars (2000 and 2001 model) are talked about at length here:
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&...ing.google.com
>
> thank you very much in advance.
>
>
>
> "TWW" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<w6rJb.16066$JD6.5101@lakeread04>...
> > "LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> > > Dear all:
> > >
> > > I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> > > Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> > > and I just knew I had to get it.
> > >
> > > It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> > > the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> > > and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> > > only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
> > >
> > > I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> > > longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> > > generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> > > coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> > > because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> > > and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
> > >
> > > So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> > > thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> > > Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> > > itself (ie the sports coup class).
> > >
> > > sicnerley, LovingPerson.
> >
> > As a 5th gen owner (01), the only alternative I can think of would be
the
> > RSX S. The V6 Accord 6 speed is just not the same IMO -- how can you
> > compare a high revving four with a V6. The Prelude also has a very
> > different feel. In 01 I opted for the Prelude over the RSX because I
just
> > liked the Prelude more even though the RSX outperforms it.

Closest thing is the Acura TSX. Yes, it is four doors (the European
Accord), but it is essentially a four door Prelude. The size is similar,
the engine is almost identical, and the speed / handling is remarkably
similar. Basically the two extra doors and an extra gear are the only
differences. When I test drove a TSX I was shocked at how similar it was to
the 5th gen type S.

BTW - the 97 was the first year of the 5th gen ludes.

Enjoy your 95. The 4th gen is excellent, as well, and I suspect you will
get many miles on it.

--Monty

Visit the last oasis of sanity in Cyberspace:
www.sanitypages.com


"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> Dear all:
>
> I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> and I just knew I had to get it.
>
> It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
>
> I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
>
> So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> itself (ie the sports coup class).
>
> sicnerley, LovingPerson.

Thanks TWW and Johnmichael Monte:

I suspect that you are correct. I may well end up keeping the
Lude and just enjoy it, esp. if I don't find a good 5th gen. for a
price and quality that would persuade me to buy one. I am in a great
situation. I am not in a hurry to buy a lude. I have no need to buy
one. This makes me a strong buyer that won't be taken for a bad deal.

It was the same situation with my current lude. I didn't even
expect to buy it. I just woke up one morning and went to the lemon
lot on base and saw it. The price was unbelievable ($3200!). That
was the reason I bought the lude. My next lude would have to be just
as a good deal if not better before I'd shell out the money.
Otherwise, I am content and totally loving the 4th gen!

One thing you both mentioned was to take care of the current '95.
I knwo I am due for a timing belt.

You also mentioned that the car can take being driven like a
sports car, but not abused. I would like to tell you how I drive and
you tell me if you think I am driving it hard or I am abusing it. I
don't want to abuse it, but at the same time, I want to drive it like
it is a sports car. Otherwise, there is no reason to carry the 160
horses under the hood.

What I do is (not all the time), if I am at the stop light as the
first car, I like to punch it and accelerate up to about 45 and keep
it there. Sometimes it is done so hard that I the front tire
screeches. I've even had the second gear screech the tires as I
shifted from first to second (must have been really hard on the
pedal). I don't ever red line. I maybe take it to 5000 or 6000.
Occassionally maybe 6500. But I always shift gears before redliine.
Does that sound ok? I mean I do floor the pedal, but I do not red
line.

On the freeways, if I want to pass a car, I will floor it (even in
fifth gear). I can be going 3500 rmp in fifth and just floor it and
wait for the car to come into the power band. I do it this way,
because I am lazy and also, I don't know if downshifting would
red-line it.

The other thing is about slowing down: I currently don't
downshift and use the engine to slow down. I just put the car in
neutral and use brakes. Should I be using the engine to slow down?
What is the verdict? Is it bad for the clutch/engine to use the
engine to slow down? One guy actually said that it is really BETTER
to use the engine to slow down. Please give me a verdict on this
matter. I will do whatever is better for the engine/clutch. I am not
opposed to downshifting to slow the car down.

thank you all for the inputs in advance.

sincerley, HondaPreludeSiMan


"Johnmichael Monteith" <monty@sanitypages.com> wrote in message news:<DVLJb.215108$8y1.776273@attbi_s52>...
> Closest thing is the Acura TSX. Yes, it is four doors (the European
> Accord), but it is essentially a four door Prelude. The size is similar,
> the engine is almost identical, and the speed / handling is remarkably
> similar. Basically the two extra doors and an extra gear are the only
> differences. When I test drove a TSX I was shocked at how similar it was to
> the 5th gen type S.
>
> BTW - the 97 was the first year of the 5th gen ludes.
>
> Enjoy your 95. The 4th gen is excellent, as well, and I suspect you will
> get many miles on it.
>
> --Monty
>
> Visit the last oasis of sanity in Cyberspace:
> www.sanitypages.com
>
>
> "LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> > Dear all:
> >
> > I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> > Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> > and I just knew I had to get it.
> >
> > It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> > the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> > and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> > only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
> >
> > I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> > longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> > generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> > coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> > because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> > and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
> >
> > So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> > thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> > Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> > itself (ie the sports coup class).
> >
> > sicnerley, LovingPerson.

You would get a wide-range of opinions on the acceleration. My opinion when
it comes to Honda's is that use moderation in all things, including
moderation. They make these cars to go to the redline, so taking advantage
of that regularly is not a bad thing. That said, don't abuse it - just take
advantage of the full spectrum of the RPM range semi-regularly.

As for down-shifting, the only 'advantage' is on your brakes. If you never
down-shift, you probably will wear down the breaks 10-30% faster
(guestimate). That said, if you are ever going down long stretches of
down-hill (more than a mile), you should definitely down-shift or the breaks
could get dangerously hot and sieze up (this is true on any vehicle).

--Monty


"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0401040734.f2188ae@posting.google.co m...
> Thanks TWW and Johnmichael Monte:
>
> I suspect that you are correct. I may well end up keeping the
> Lude and just enjoy it, esp. if I don't find a good 5th gen. for a
> price and quality that would persuade me to buy one. I am in a great
> situation. I am not in a hurry to buy a lude. I have no need to buy
> one. This makes me a strong buyer that won't be taken for a bad deal.
>
> It was the same situation with my current lude. I didn't even
> expect to buy it. I just woke up one morning and went to the lemon
> lot on base and saw it. The price was unbelievable ($3200!). That
> was the reason I bought the lude. My next lude would have to be just
> as a good deal if not better before I'd shell out the money.
> Otherwise, I am content and totally loving the 4th gen!
>
> One thing you both mentioned was to take care of the current '95.
> I knwo I am due for a timing belt.
>
> You also mentioned that the car can take being driven like a
> sports car, but not abused. I would like to tell you how I drive and
> you tell me if you think I am driving it hard or I am abusing it. I
> don't want to abuse it, but at the same time, I want to drive it like
> it is a sports car. Otherwise, there is no reason to carry the 160
> horses under the hood.
>
> What I do is (not all the time), if I am at the stop light as the
> first car, I like to punch it and accelerate up to about 45 and keep
> it there. Sometimes it is done so hard that I the front tire
> screeches. I've even had the second gear screech the tires as I
> shifted from first to second (must have been really hard on the
> pedal). I don't ever red line. I maybe take it to 5000 or 6000.
> Occassionally maybe 6500. But I always shift gears before redliine.
> Does that sound ok? I mean I do floor the pedal, but I do not red
> line.
>
> On the freeways, if I want to pass a car, I will floor it (even in
> fifth gear). I can be going 3500 rmp in fifth and just floor it and
> wait for the car to come into the power band. I do it this way,
> because I am lazy and also, I don't know if downshifting would
> red-line it.
>
> The other thing is about slowing down: I currently don't
> downshift and use the engine to slow down. I just put the car in
> neutral and use brakes. Should I be using the engine to slow down?
> What is the verdict? Is it bad for the clutch/engine to use the
> engine to slow down? One guy actually said that it is really BETTER
> to use the engine to slow down. Please give me a verdict on this
> matter. I will do whatever is better for the engine/clutch. I am not
> opposed to downshifting to slow the car down.
>
> thank you all for the inputs in advance.
>
> sincerley, HondaPreludeSiMan
>
>
> "Johnmichael Monteith" <monty@sanitypages.com> wrote in message
news:<DVLJb.215108$8y1.776273@attbi_s52>...
> > Closest thing is the Acura TSX. Yes, it is four doors (the European
> > Accord), but it is essentially a four door Prelude. The size is
similar,
> > the engine is almost identical, and the speed / handling is remarkably
> > similar. Basically the two extra doors and an extra gear are the only
> > differences. When I test drove a TSX I was shocked at how similar it
was to
> > the 5th gen type S.
> >
> > BTW - the 97 was the first year of the 5th gen ludes.
> >
> > Enjoy your 95. The 4th gen is excellent, as well, and I suspect you
will
> > get many miles on it.
> >
> > --Monty
> >
> > Visit the last oasis of sanity in Cyberspace:
> > www.sanitypages.com
> >
> >
> > "LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:fed77941.0401011210.3fc34866@posting.google.c om...
> > > Dear all:
> > >
> > > I am becoming a big fan of the Prelude since I purchased it last
> > > Saturday (about 4 days or 5 days agon). The deal just fell in my lap
> > > and I just knew I had to get it.
> > >
> > > It is a 95, so it is generation four. I have been reading up on
> > > the Preludes. It seems that the 96 and newer are the fifth generation
> > > and have a V-tech technology as standard (correct if I am wrong. I
> > > only saw one web site make this reference that they are standard).
> > >
> > > I am sitting here thinking that is just a shame that Honda no
> > > longer makes the Prelude. What would be an equivalent to the fifth
> > > generation Ludes? I know it isn't the S-2000. The Lude is a sport
> > > coup and the S-2000 is a convertible. I don't like convertibles
> > > because I think that to make them rigid enough in terms of the chasis
> > > and the frame, the car has to be more weighty than in a coup.
> > >
> > > So, what is the equivalent of the Lude? Is there even such a
> > > thing? Any input or opinion will be appreciated, as I really love the
> > > Lude that I got and want to learn more about them and about the class
> > > itself (ie the sports coup class).
> > >
> > > sicnerley, LovingPerson.

I drove a TSX and was completely unimpressed. Nothing
like a Prelude in terms of power or handling. If considering
a TSX, the try a 2004 TL with 270 HP.....

Carl

"Johnmichael Monteith" <monty@sanitypages.com> wrote in message
newsVLJb.215108$8y1.776273@attbi_s52...
> Closest thing is the Acura TSX. Yes, it is four doors (the European
> Accord), but it is essentially a four door Prelude. The size is similar,
> the engine is almost identical, and the speed / handling is remarkably
> similar. Basically the two extra doors and an extra gear are the only
> differences. When I test drove a TSX I was shocked at how similar it was to
> the 5th gen type S.
>
> BTW - the 97 was the first year of the 5th gen ludes.
>
> Enjoy your 95. The 4th gen is excellent, as well, and I suspect you will
> get many miles on it.
>
> --Monty