Honda Car Forum

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 17:50:56 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote
>> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> spake
>> > Wait a second: The pulley bolt has a right-handed thread on a 1991
>> > (and most or all) Honda Civic(s), isn't it?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> > If so, and the engine rotates as you say, then the bolt will tend to
>> > be unscrewed.
>>
>> The crank pulley is keyed to the crankshaft (don't lose that key!) The bolt
>> neither tightens nor loosens. My earlier comment was a mistake.
>
>I realize my analysis was wrong, too. But for the key, the crankshaft would tend
>to be rotating onto the bolt, tightening the connection.
>
>Like you said, though, the key stops this.
>
>Thanks, George, for tactfully pointing out my stupidity in thinking (in essence)
>an impact wrench could be used as a torque wrench when re-assembling.

No need to assume "stupidity" here.:-) We've all gotten cornered with a
job at one time or another - the first time I did a TB, I took everything
else apart before I found I couldn't get the pulley bolt out... had the car
out of action for 2 weeks figuring how to attack it. On the advice of a
mechanic, I eventually jammed a big screwdriver in the ring gear but it
scared the sh*t out of me applying all that torque against it.

Honda started putting the 50mm hex socket in the pulley ~'91-'92 - my '90
Civic didn't have it, my '92 Integra does. You might want to check the
next time you're looking there to see if yours has it. The Schley tool
which fits it can be bought here:
http://www.autotoolexpress.com/honachardamp.html Snap-On has a similar
thing:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_d...re&dir=catalog


Another little burp: the 2nd time I did the job, to get at the water pump,
you have to take the inner plastic shield off and it's held on with bolts
in recessed holes in the plastic. My 3/8" drive 10mm socket was to big to
go in the hole - you need either a 10mm "thin-wall" socket or a 1/4 drive
10mm socket.

Good luck when you tackle the job.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Harbor Freight has a very inexpensive torque wrench too. I just bought one
of these when I did the timing belt and water pump on an 85 CRX. I used the
low tech approach on the crankshaft pulley. Just inserted a spanner wrench
in the holes and placed it on a 6 by 12 piece of lumber to hold it in place
and then used a 3/4" socket adaptor with a 3 foot long breaker bar. Good
luck wolf.
"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FF78D57.9AE38D07@junkmail.com...
> > Thanks all for the comments. I gather those of you who have an air
impact wrench
> > (with an air compressor) use it a lot? I can see using it for my tire
rotations
> > (with drive adapters as needed) but am not sure I'd use it for much else
besides
> > the pulley bolt, so I am leaning towards rental. Comments welcome.
> >
> > Still, I see several 1/2-inch air impact wrenches (rated well over 130
ft-lbs of
> > torque) at http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/...288-3069-3071/ .
They
> > range in price from around $40 to over $100. If the $40 version is quite
> > adequate to do the pulley bolt, then with an air compressor I can see
laying out
> > the money for my own. Is such an inexpensive impact wrench worth the
money?
> >
> > I realize a decent air compressor is another pile of dough. But I can
find
> > plenty more uses for it. E.g. inflating car and bike tires and blowing
clean
> > parts.
>
> If you go the http://www.harborfreight.com you can find a range of air
> compressors at a low cost. Even buying the compressor and the wrench you
> probably pay less than having the dealer do the work.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 22:18:04 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org>
wrote:

>On 1/4/04 4:03 PM, in article re2hvvkg10n7mh10crrjpk60kgp8mibf34@4ax.com,
>"Barry S." <nntp@spamsack.org> wrote:
>
>> On 4 Jan 2004 17:20:05 GMT, "Tegger®"
>> <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> spake unto the
>>> masses in newsusfvv88vdhtn8bcpnvsadjoomfria39pi@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There have been estimates here of torque to get the pulley bolt off of
>>>> 300-500lb/ft. Nobody seems to be sure if this is due to factory
>>>> over-torquing or longterm heat cycling
>>>
>>> My guess is long-term heat-cycling combined with small amounts of rust
>>> around the perimeter of the bolt head and washer
>>
>> And thats where my next favorite tool comes in, the air hammer. If
>> you have a bolt that simply won't budge with the impact gun, hitting
>> it straight on with the air hammer sometimes dislodges rust or
>> whatever has it welded in place. The air hammer is also great for (as
>> a last resort) removing wheel locks you don't have the keys for.
>> However, there are usually better options.
>>
>> Lug nut removal with air hammer, see
>> http://www.mailsack.org/lugnut.JPG I made a mess of this one, but dig
>> in, and then angle the tool so it hits towards the left. Often you can
>> kick them loose and hand back them off using this method.
>>
>> __________________
>> Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with
>> 'mail'.
>> N38.6 W121.4
>
>The reason I have heard for Honda's recommending against using an impact
>wrench on the crank bolt is because the crank seals and bearings can be
>dislodged and/or damaged. If that is true, I don't think I want to be
>pounding on it too much with the air hammer.

I've NEVER pounded on a crankshaft bolt (and do not recommend ever
doing so) with an air hammer. Honda probably recommends against using
an impact wrench on the crankbolt because the impact wrench can put
out far more torque than the bolt should ever be tightened to.
However, its fine for removal of the bolt and I've been driving around
on an impact wrench (with the aid of a 120 ft-lb torque stick)
tightened crank bolt for nearly a year with no problems.

But that lug nut was fun. And that was just a practice one..

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

On 1/4/04 5:09 PM, in article Xns9466B8E0F2E55teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
> news:BC1DED3A.379A6%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org:
>
>> On 1/4/04 4:03 PM, in article re2hvvkg10n7mh10crrjpk60kgp8mibf34@4ax.com,
>> "Barry S." <nntp@spamsack.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lug nut removal with air hammer, see
>>> http://www.mailsack.org/lugnut.JPG I made a mess of this one, but dig
>>> in, and then angle the tool so it hits towards the left. Often you can
>>> kick them loose and hand back them off using this method.
>
>>
>> The reason I have heard for Honda's recommending against using an impact
>> wrench on the crank bolt is because the crank seals and bearings can be
>> dislodged and/or damaged. If that is true, I don't think I want to be
>> pounding on it too much with the air hammer.
>>
>>
>
>
> You can't damage the crank oil seal by messing with the crank bolt. The two
> are totally unrelated to each other and not even in the same place.
>
> The air hammer is an accepted last-resort solution.
>


To get it off, I agree. Whatever it takes. But when putting it back on,
no. the Helms manual for the '96 Odyssey on page 6-7 says: "Note: Do not
use an impact wrench when installing"; and again on page 6-8: "... 181
lbf-ft. Do not use an impact wrench when installing."

I don't remember where I heard that explanation, or if it is the correct
reason, but if I am doing it to my own car, I am not going to ignore the
manufacturers warnings.

"E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
news:BC1E3530.37DC2%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org:

> On 1/4/04 5:09 PM, in article
> Xns9466B8E0F2E55teggeratistop@207.14.113.17, "Tegger®"
> <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
>> news:BC1DED3A.379A6%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org:
>>
>>> On 1/4/04 4:03 PM, in article
>>> re2hvvkg10n7mh10crrjpk60kgp8mibf34@4ax.com, "Barry S."
>>> <nntp@spamsack.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lug nut removal with air hammer, see
>>>> http://www.mailsack.org/lugnut.JPG I made a mess of this one, but
>>>> dig in, and then angle the tool so it hits towards the left. Often
>>>> you can kick them loose and hand back them off using this method.
>>
>>>
>>> The reason I have heard for Honda's recommending against using an
>>> impact wrench on the crank bolt is because the crank seals and
>>> bearings can be dislodged and/or damaged. If that is true, I don't
>>> think I want to be pounding on it too much with the air hammer.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You can't damage the crank oil seal by messing with the crank bolt.
>> The two are totally unrelated to each other and not even in the same
>> place.
>>
>> The air hammer is an accepted last-resort solution.
>>
>
>
> To get it off, I agree. Whatever it takes. But when putting it back
> on, no. the Helms manual for the '96 Odyssey on page 6-7 says: "Note:
> Do not use an impact wrench when installing"; and again on page 6-8:
> "... 181 lbf-ft. Do not use an impact wrench when installing."
>
> I don't remember where I heard that explanation, or if it is the
> correct reason, but if I am doing it to my own car, I am not going to
> ignore the manufacturers warnings.


For somethng as critical as tightening a crank pulley bolt, definitely not.
Ever seen what happens when one of those things comes off? You're stranded
at the very least. Use a torque wrench.

But you can't damage the oil seals or bearings by using an air wrench or
hammer to take the bolt OFF, which is the subject in question here. The
caution has to do with overtorquing.


--
TeGGeR®