Honda Car Forum

In article <bfabvv8ksnmqrd65orrdobipdf6gj6iuta@4ax.com>,
gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com says...
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:15:57 GMT, riccardo@smile.org (Ric) wrote:
>
> >In article <vva5e21bnf2s8e@corp.supernews.com>, "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>When I got home from the dealership, I read the Edmunds.com Long-Term Road
> >>Test, and they spent more than a page on a glowing endorsement of the
> >>suprising power of the I4. So even if you disagree, you must concede that
> >>it is a matter of opinion. And I'm not alone in mine.
> >>
> >
> >Naturally the V6 will have more power, and it is expected that v6 owners would
> >know this and, of course, look down their noses on the i4. However for many
> >the i4 is more than sufficient, and if one's recent experience is with an even
> >smaller engine the i4 can be quite impressive. I bought a 98 Civic after
> >driving a van for 10 years. The Civic was a great car to drive, but it was
> >underpowered. After 5 years of this I went to the Honda dealer expecting to
> >test drive a v6 Accord. However after driving an i4 /5 speed I realized that
> >this engine had sufficient oomph to move me and I never even drove the 6. No
> >need to step up to the increased power of a v6 -- or the higher insurance,
> >fuel and car payments.
>
> I agree. I thought the i4 Accord had plenty of power and worked well
> with the AT. (I agree that MT is generally better, but for those who
> prefer AT, this car is great.) It is hardly a dog, just because it
> isn't a sports car. Most buyers chose the 4 because it offers
> significant advantages to them (including lower cost).
>
> I have a '98 Odyssey with an i4 and AT and I think it is very well
> suited to this car. (Even though I would prefer an MT.) More power
> would be writing a check that the chassis can't cash. I suspect that
> the same is true to a lesser extent with the Accord.
>
> That being said, if I were shopping for an Accord I would be looking
> at the v6 6-speed. Is that available on the sedan?
>
>
I have a 2000 SE with a four and an AT. I'm very happy with it. It has
plenty of power for the type of driving I do around here. Lots of
freeways and mountains.

Seems like you have answered your own question. A V6
Accord will repay a lot of that initial cost difference
in resale value. There are several other brands on the market
that make reliable vehicles as well with V6 engines that can be
had for less than the Honda 4cy. You might want to drive some of
them a get a total drive home price before you decide which to
buy. Because of the differences among brands in standard
equipment, optional equipment, and interest rates as well as
difference between dealers extra charges and fees, one should
always get a total drive home price before making a decision. My
one son owns a '97 Accord that he decide to keep for his daughter
since dealers were offering him less than wholesale for it in
trade. He priced several V6 sedans before buying the one he
eventually did buy.. Although the difference in the MSRP among
them was less than than 5K, the one he bought had a total drive
home price of $8,600 less than one brand he was considering and
$9,400 less than another


mike hunt



Robin wrote:
>
> In article <3FF32CDC.430F4BC@mailcity.com>, BenDover@mailcity.com
> wrote:
>
> > The Accord is one of the better quality vehicles in its
> > price range. Quality is s function of management, I doubt
> > one assembled in Japan would be significantly better than
> > one assembled in the US. Not every vehicle built by every
> > manufacture can be completely problem free every time, that
> > is why they all offer a warranty, not to worry. If I were
> > purchasing an Accord, I would spend the extra bucks and buy
> > a V6 over the 4.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
> >
> I am in the process of making that decision now, so I'm interested to
> know why you suggest the V6 over the 4. From what I've read in Consumer
> REports, if I'm understanding it correctly, the mpg doesn't seem to be
> much different. The cost of the car (4) is significantly less expensive
> (am I correct, by about $4000?). My current and last car have been
> Accord EXL V6's. I live at the top of a hill, not an exceptionally
> steep one, but concerned what the difference might be getting up that
> hill with a V6 vs 4.
> Robin
>
> >
> > Hubbub wrote:
> > >
> > > I was looking at Accords over the weekend, and the ones I saw were all made
> > > in Maryville, OH. I wonder if they have a different track record than
> > > Accords made in Japan.
> > >
> > > Where are these negative reviews and articles? I could not find the review
> > > on Edmunds that Joshua referred to about trips back to the dealer within the
> > > first 90 days. In fact, of the 900 or so consumer reviews of the '03 Accord,
> > > the average score is around a 9.2 which seem to be very good. I spent about
> > > half an hour and could not find anything about reliability issues. If more
> > > details could be provided where all of these negative reviews are, I would
> > > like to read them.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > "A-MAN" <admin@a-man.org> wrote in message
> > > news:bst7fc$c7i@dispatch.concentric.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:vv3jn8jv5d3i93@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > I test drove a Honda Accord EX with the I4 this past weekend and I loved
> > > > it.
> > > > > Although it doesn't have the refinement of the Acura TSX, (which I am
> > > also
> > > > > interested in) the features are all there and the price is far lower.
> > > > After
> > > > > my test drive, I had really been won over, and I left the dealership
> > > > having
> > > > > about 95% decided on getting an '04 Accord.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then I started reading online consumer reviews, and my mind started to
> > > > change.
> > > > > There are *so many* negative reviews of that car. It seems that people
> > > > have
> > > > > been having lots of mechanical and quality problems with their 2003
> > > > Accords.
> > > > > On the other hand, the negative reviews of the TSX just complain about
> > > > > performance and styling, not quality. But even the positive reviews of
> > > > > the Accord mention rattles and engine trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I know that people who are upset about their car are more likely to
> > > > > post a review than people who are happy with it. People who have lemons
> > > > need
> > > > > to blow off steam. But compared to other models of car on the road, the
> > > > > 2003 Accord had *way* more negative reviews, and a much higher
> > > percentage
> > > > of
> > > > > the reviews were negative. (This, by the way, was true on every
> > > consumer
> > > > > review site that I checked.)
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I read the Edmunds.com three-month road test. They loved the car.
> > > But
> > > > in
> > > > > those three months, they had to take the car back to the dealer twice.
> > > > > The first time was the gas-cap/engine-light issue, which I know has been
> > > > > visited time and again on Usenet. But the second was a loose clamp on a
> > > > hose
> > > > > that caused the engine light to come on. I know that this is minor, and
> > > > > free to repair, but it is still a warning sign. As far as I'm concerned,
> > > > > if a car has to go to the dealer even once in the first three months,
> > > > that's
> > > > > too many times. The fact that even in a glowingly positive review, there
> > > > > was a mechanical problem with the engine, worries me.
> > > > >
> > > > > So my question is this: Has Honda lost its way? Are they resting on
> > > their
> > > > > laurels? Is the quality still there? Also, all of the reviews I read
> > > were
> > > > > of the '03 model. Were the quality issues with the '03 addressed in the
> > > > '04
> > > > > update?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that Honda can make quality cars. The TSX seems to be really well
> > > > built.
> > > > > But that thing is made in Japan, and the Accord is made in the USA. Is
> > > > that
> > > > > what the problem is?
> > > >
> > > > In all the negative posts you see, you also have to keep in mind that the
> > > > Honda Accord is one of the best selling cars in America. By sheer numbers
> > > > alone, they are bound to issue cars with more quality problems, but I
> > > would
> > > > be willing to bet the percentage is still amoung the lowest of all
> > > > manufacturers (in fact, numerous magazines make just such a reference).
> > > >
> > > > I am extremely happy and have had no trouble with my '03 EX with 7,000
> > > > miles.
> > > > The Accords are made in Japan as well. Mine was built there.
> > > >
> > > >
>
> --
> Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

Although many are prone to do so, one can not judge all of the
cars made by any manufacture, good or bad, based on a particular
one they happened to purchase. ALL manufactures make some on
occasion that are not up to their standards, that is why they all
have a warranty even Rolls Royce.



mike hunt



Scott MacLean wrote:
>
> As you've probably already read in this newsgroup, my '03 six-cylinder
> six-speed coupe has spent a total of almost three weeks in the shop since I
> bought it in October. I'm on my second transmission, they've fixed three
> rattles inside the car and the electric door locks still don't work if it's
> below -5C (around 20F) outside.
>
> I do still like the car - I just don't know if I will ever buy a Honda again
> (this is my third Honda in a row).
>
> "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote in message
> news:vv3jn8jv5d3i93@corp.supernews.com...
> > I test drove a Honda Accord EX with the I4 this past weekend and I loved
> it.
> > Although it doesn't have the refinement of the Acura TSX, (which I am also
> > interested in) the features are all there and the price is far lower.
> After
> > my test drive, I had really been won over, and I left the dealership
> having
> > about 95% decided on getting an '04 Accord.
> >
> > Then I started reading online consumer reviews, and my mind started to
> change.
> > There are *so many* negative reviews of that car. It seems that people
> have
> > been having lots of mechanical and quality problems with their 2003
> Accords.
> > On the other hand, the negative reviews of the TSX just complain about
> > performance and styling, not quality. But even the positive reviews of
> > the Accord mention rattles and engine trouble.
> >
> > Now, I know that people who are upset about their car are more likely to
> > post a review than people who are happy with it. People who have lemons
> need
> > to blow off steam. But compared to other models of car on the road, the
> > 2003 Accord had *way* more negative reviews, and a much higher percentage
> of
> > the reviews were negative. (This, by the way, was true on every consumer
> > review site that I checked.)
> >
> > So, I read the Edmunds.com three-month road test. They loved the car. But
> in
> > those three months, they had to take the car back to the dealer twice.
> > The first time was the gas-cap/engine-light issue, which I know has been
> > visited time and again on Usenet. But the second was a loose clamp on a
> hose
> > that caused the engine light to come on. I know that this is minor, and
> > free to repair, but it is still a warning sign. As far as I'm concerned,
> > if a car has to go to the dealer even once in the first three months,
> that's
> > too many times. The fact that even in a glowingly positive review, there
> > was a mechanical problem with the engine, worries me.
> >
> > So my question is this: Has Honda lost its way? Are they resting on their
> > laurels? Is the quality still there? Also, all of the reviews I read were
> > of the '03 model. Were the quality issues with the '03 addressed in the
> '04
> > update?
> >
> > I know that Honda can make quality cars. The TSX seems to be really well
> built.
> > But that thing is made in Japan, and the Accord is made in the USA. Is
> that
> > what the problem is?
> >
> > Thank you for your opinions.
> >
> > -Joshua
> > --
> > -Joshua Belsky
> > jjbelsky@yahoo.com
> > http://belsky.net
> >

"Chris Aseltine" <ophidian@newsnation.com> wrote in message
news:xM7Jb.713388$HS4.5112603@attbi_s01...
> "SA" <nospam@nospam.net> writes:
>
> > Have 2 second, the 4 cyl is a dog.
>
> Thank you.

You thank SA for his/her one line statement confirming your opinion, but not
lcopps for taking the time to compose a much more thoughtful counter claim?
Are you always this shortsighted? Was it really that blissful to get your
ego stroked?

I am of the opinion that the 4cyl manual is no dog and the people that think
it is so have either A) never driven a manual, or B) do not know how to
drive it properly and therefore need the 2 extra cylinders with an auto
tranny to feel they are getting something with half decent power.

"A-MAN" <admin@a-man.org> writes:
> "Chris Aseltine" <ophidian@newsnation.com> wrote:
>> "SA" <nospam@nospam.net> writes:
>>
>>> Have 2 second, the 4 cyl is a dog.
>>
>> Thank you.
>
> You thank SA for his/her one line statement confirming your opinion, but
> not lcopps for taking the time to compose a much more thoughtful counter
> claim?

I'd say that's accurate.

> Are you always this shortsighted?

No. Usually, I'm more shortsighted.

> Was it really that blissful to get your ego stroked?

Had to clean the mess off the monitor.

> I am of the opinion that the 4cyl manual is no dog and the people that
> think it is so have either A) never driven a manual, or B) do not know
> how to drive it properly and therefore need the 2 extra cylinders with an
> auto tranny to feel they are getting something with half decent power.

You're entitled to your opinion, even if you're wrong.

"Scott MacLean" <scottmNO@SPAMnerosoft.com> writes:

> Don't knock one cylinder two-strokes until you've ridden a one-cylinder
> two-stroke snowmobile at 95 mph.

I believe something may be wrong with your system clock, Scott.

Yup, I myself tend to be very conscious of the weight distribution. It's
important enough to deserve being a standard statistic for a car's
specification. Unfortunately weigh distribution tends to an occasional
'after thought' on most car reviews.

Pars

George Macdonald wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 05:08:40 GMT, SA <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <_a4Jb.19629$IM3.7935@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink .net>,
> > lcopps <LC@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The 4 Cylinder strait drive is no dog. It is also not nose heavy like
> >> the V6. It has no mushy torque converter. If you drive an automatic, you
> >> might as well drive a Buick.
> >>
> >> Chris Aseltine wrote:
> >> > "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> writes:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>I walked into the dealership planning on trying out the I4 and then trying
> >> >>the V6. I was so impressed with the 4 that I didn't even test drive the
> >> >>V6. I couldn't believe I was driving a standard, non-souped-up 4. It even
> >> >>felt like it had more low end torque than the version in the TSX,
> >> >>although this could be my imagination.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Come on, the 4 is a dog. Have you ever even driven a V6? Give me a break.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >Have 2 second, the 4 cyl is a dog.
>
> Utter rubbish - get a manual and learn to drive properly.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

(Assuming automatic..) The V6 tranny should be better at handling loads
when compared to a I-4 tranny. If you're regularly towing or going up
steep hills, I would think that the V6's tranny would last longer.

Pars

Robin wrote:
>
> In article <3FF32CDC.430F4BC@mailcity.com>, BenDover@mailcity.com
> wrote:
>
> > The Accord is one of the better quality vehicles in its
> > price range. Quality is s function of management, I doubt
> > one assembled in Japan would be significantly better than
> > one assembled in the US. Not every vehicle built by every
> > manufacture can be completely problem free every time, that
> > is why they all offer a warranty, not to worry. If I were
> > purchasing an Accord, I would spend the extra bucks and buy
> > a V6 over the 4.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
> >
> I am in the process of making that decision now, so I'm interested to
> know why you suggest the V6 over the 4. From what I've read in Consumer
> REports, if I'm understanding it correctly, the mpg doesn't seem to be
> much different. The cost of the car (4) is significantly less expensive
> (am I correct, by about $4000?). My current and last car have been
> Accord EXL V6's. I live at the top of a hill, not an exceptionally
> steep one, but concerned what the difference might be getting up that
> hill with a V6 vs 4.
> Robin
>
> >
> > Hubbub wrote:
> > >
> > > I was looking at Accords over the weekend, and the ones I saw were all made
> > > in Maryville, OH. I wonder if they have a different track record than
> > > Accords made in Japan.
> > >
> > > Where are these negative reviews and articles? I could not find the review
> > > on Edmunds that Joshua referred to about trips back to the dealer within the
> > > first 90 days. In fact, of the 900 or so consumer reviews of the '03 Accord,
> > > the average score is around a 9.2 which seem to be very good. I spent about
> > > half an hour and could not find anything about reliability issues. If more
> > > details could be provided where all of these negative reviews are, I would
> > > like to read them.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > "A-MAN" <admin@a-man.org> wrote in message
> > > news:bst7fc$c7i@dispatch.concentric.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:vv3jn8jv5d3i93@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > I test drove a Honda Accord EX with the I4 this past weekend and I loved
> > > > it.
> > > > > Although it doesn't have the refinement of the Acura TSX, (which I am
> > > also
> > > > > interested in) the features are all there and the price is far lower.
> > > > After
> > > > > my test drive, I had really been won over, and I left the dealership
> > > > having
> > > > > about 95% decided on getting an '04 Accord.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then I started reading online consumer reviews, and my mind started to
> > > > change.
> > > > > There are *so many* negative reviews of that car. It seems that people
> > > > have
> > > > > been having lots of mechanical and quality problems with their 2003
> > > > Accords.
> > > > > On the other hand, the negative reviews of the TSX just complain about
> > > > > performance and styling, not quality. But even the positive reviews of
> > > > > the Accord mention rattles and engine trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I know that people who are upset about their car are more likely to
> > > > > post a review than people who are happy with it. People who have lemons
> > > > need
> > > > > to blow off steam. But compared to other models of car on the road, the
> > > > > 2003 Accord had *way* more negative reviews, and a much higher
> > > percentage
> > > > of
> > > > > the reviews were negative. (This, by the way, was true on every
> > > consumer
> > > > > review site that I checked.)
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I read the Edmunds.com three-month road test. They loved the car.
> > > But
> > > > in
> > > > > those three months, they had to take the car back to the dealer twice.
> > > > > The first time was the gas-cap/engine-light issue, which I know has been
> > > > > visited time and again on Usenet. But the second was a loose clamp on a
> > > > hose
> > > > > that caused the engine light to come on. I know that this is minor, and
> > > > > free to repair, but it is still a warning sign. As far as I'm concerned,
> > > > > if a car has to go to the dealer even once in the first three months,
> > > > that's
> > > > > too many times. The fact that even in a glowingly positive review, there
> > > > > was a mechanical problem with the engine, worries me.
> > > > >
> > > > > So my question is this: Has Honda lost its way? Are they resting on
> > > their
> > > > > laurels? Is the quality still there? Also, all of the reviews I read
> > > were
> > > > > of the '03 model. Were the quality issues with the '03 addressed in the
> > > > '04
> > > > > update?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that Honda can make quality cars. The TSX seems to be really well
> > > > built.
> > > > > But that thing is made in Japan, and the Accord is made in the USA. Is
> > > > that
> > > > > what the problem is?
> > > >
> > > > In all the negative posts you see, you also have to keep in mind that the
> > > > Honda Accord is one of the best selling cars in America. By sheer numbers
> > > > alone, they are bound to issue cars with more quality problems, but I
> > > would
> > > > be willing to bet the percentage is still amoung the lowest of all
> > > > manufacturers (in fact, numerous magazines make just such a reference).
> > > >
> > > > I am extremely happy and have had no trouble with my '03 EX with 7,000
> > > > miles.
> > > > The Accords are made in Japan as well. Mine was built there.
> > > >
> > > >
>
> --
> Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

I wasn't saying that my experience represents Accords in general, I was
simply stating what I have gone through with my car.

<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3FF5F69D.FE8D7BE8@mailcity.com...
> Although many are prone to do so, one can not judge all of the
> cars made by any manufacture, good or bad, based on a particular
> one they happened to purchase. ALL manufactures make some on
> occasion that are not up to their standards, that is why they all
> have a warranty even Rolls Royce.
>
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> Scott MacLean wrote:
> >
> > As you've probably already read in this newsgroup, my '03 six-cylinder
> > six-speed coupe has spent a total of almost three weeks in the shop
since I
> > bought it in October. I'm on my second transmission, they've fixed three
> > rattles inside the car and the electric door locks still don't work if
it's
> > below -5C (around 20F) outside.
> >
> > I do still like the car - I just don't know if I will ever buy a Honda
again
> > (this is my third Honda in a row).
> >
> > "Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote in message
> > news:vv3jn8jv5d3i93@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I test drove a Honda Accord EX with the I4 this past weekend and I
loved
> > it.
> > > Although it doesn't have the refinement of the Acura TSX, (which I am
also
> > > interested in) the features are all there and the price is far lower.
> > After
> > > my test drive, I had really been won over, and I left the dealership
> > having
> > > about 95% decided on getting an '04 Accord.
> > >
> > > Then I started reading online consumer reviews, and my mind started to
> > change.
> > > There are *so many* negative reviews of that car. It seems that people
> > have
> > > been having lots of mechanical and quality problems with their 2003
> > Accords.
> > > On the other hand, the negative reviews of the TSX just complain about
> > > performance and styling, not quality. But even the positive reviews of
> > > the Accord mention rattles and engine trouble.
> > >
> > > Now, I know that people who are upset about their car are more likely
to
> > > post a review than people who are happy with it. People who have
lemons
> > need
> > > to blow off steam. But compared to other models of car on the road,
the
> > > 2003 Accord had *way* more negative reviews, and a much higher
percentage
> > of
> > > the reviews were negative. (This, by the way, was true on every
consumer
> > > review site that I checked.)
> > >
> > > So, I read the Edmunds.com three-month road test. They loved the car.
But
> > in
> > > those three months, they had to take the car back to the dealer twice.
> > > The first time was the gas-cap/engine-light issue, which I know has
been
> > > visited time and again on Usenet. But the second was a loose clamp on
a
> > hose
> > > that caused the engine light to come on. I know that this is minor,
and
> > > free to repair, but it is still a warning sign. As far as I'm
concerned,
> > > if a car has to go to the dealer even once in the first three months,
> > that's
> > > too many times. The fact that even in a glowingly positive review,
there
> > > was a mechanical problem with the engine, worries me.
> > >
> > > So my question is this: Has Honda lost its way? Are they resting on
their
> > > laurels? Is the quality still there? Also, all of the reviews I read
were
> > > of the '03 model. Were the quality issues with the '03 addressed in
the
> > '04
> > > update?
> > >
> > > I know that Honda can make quality cars. The TSX seems to be really
well
> > built.
> > > But that thing is made in Japan, and the Accord is made in the USA. Is
> > that
> > > what the problem is?
> > >
> > > Thank you for your opinions.
> > >
> > > -Joshua
> > > --
> > > -Joshua Belsky
> > > jjbelsky@yahoo.com
> > > http://belsky.net
> > >

<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3FF5F69D.FE8D7BE8@mailcity.com...
> Although many are prone to do so, one can not judge all of the
> cars made by any manufacture, good or bad, based on a particular
> one they happened to purchase. ALL manufactures make some on
> occasion that are not up to their standards, that is why they all
> have a warranty even Rolls Royce.
>
>
>
> mike hunt

broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...
broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken
record...broken record...

--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/