Honda Car Forum

>"Indian Summer"
>This device can be left installed or uninstalled in the victim's
> car, leaving you clueless until it's too late.

Yeah, but it requires some kind of installations and waiting time. Assuming
a crook breaks into your car install this device and leaves. At least
they'll leave a clue and we'll wait for the crook with water hoses.

And if you bring your car into service, at least you'll watch them.
Tibur

SF wrote:

> I work in Forensics

Forensics what?

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:00:55 GMT, "Indian Summer" <Almonds@pistachios.com>
wrote:

>>"George Macdonald" <wrote in message > wrote:
>> >Have a new Accord, and am a bit concerned about theft.
>> >Was wondering how effective the "micro-chip key" that is apparently
>> >required to start the engine "really" is in deterring theft ?
>>
>> From what I've seen of the technology up to 2001 models, they're usually
>> good for a few years. It takes a couple of years before locksmiths get
>> equipment which can decode them - add a couple more for the thieves to
>> ummm, "acquire" the equipment.
>>
>> >Or, is it mostly a "feel-good" kind of thing ?
>> >If it is effective, how is it that the Accords are about the most stolen
>> >vehicles ? How is it done then; are they just towed ?
>>
>> Towing is what the real pros will do. Then there's the bandits you leave
>> your car and keys with for some indeterminate time - alarm/audio install
>> "specialist" are often prime suspects here. They can make a physical copy
>> of your key, which wont start your car
>>
>> but with a ECU swap and the corresponding chipped
>> key for that donor ECU strapped near the steering
>> column sensor, they can drive off.
>
>Uhmm... They wouldn't invest $500 on a ECU. Ever heard of the $60
>Immobilizer bypass unit that will bypass a full range of models/makes.
>Here's the secret.

Who said anything about "invest"? So you think also pay retail for such
items? I bet you think all wreckers' yards are paragons of honesty and
virtue too?

>The bypass unit uses a unique auto program sequence to learn the secure code
>from the Key Cylinder Module and repeats it when remote start is activated
>or grounding a wire, eliminating the need to have the victim's key in the
>vehicle. This device can be left installed or uninstalled in the victim's
>car, leaving you clueless until it's too late. This is fact, so watch out.

It's not exactly a "repeat". That'll only work if the algorithm for the
rolling codes is known... which is why I said it takes a couple of years.
With enough encryption, it *could* be made secure... within the known
bounds of cryptography. It'll likely get easier when all the mfrs
implement electronic start.

>> I dunno about the brake [or clutch] pedal locks.
>
>Agreed. These things won't work for automatics. Who needs brakes to drive.
>Indy

I believe they also depend on the brake pedal interlocks for starting the
engine and selecting a gear - relatively minor points for a pro of course.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"Gus" wrote

> SF wrote:
>
> > I work in Forensics
>
> Forensics what?

Forensics, New Jersey. It's just east of Passaic.




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>"George Macdonald"
>>"Indian Summer"
> >>>"George Macdonald"
> >> >Have a new Accord, and am a bit concerned about theft.
> >> >Was wondering how effective the "micro-chip key" that is apparently
> >> >required to start the engine "really" is in deterring theft ?
> >>
> >> From what I've seen of the technology up to 2001 models, they're
> >> good for a few years. It takes a couple of years before locksmiths get
> >> equipment which can decode them - add a couple more for the thieves to
> >> ummm, "acquire" the equipment.
> >>
> >> >Or, is it mostly a "feel-good" kind of thing ?
> >> >If it is effective, how is it that the Accords are about the most
> >> >stolen ? How is it done then; are they just towed ?
> >>
> >> Towing is what the real pros will do. Then there's the bandits you
> >> your car and keys with for some indeterminate time - alarm/audio
> >> "specialist" are often prime suspects here. They can make a physical
> >> of your key, which wont start your car
> >>
> >> but with a ECU swap and the corresponding chipped
> >> key for that donor ECU strapped near the steering
> >> column sensor, they can drive off.
> >
> >Uhmm... They wouldn't invest $500 on a ECU.
>
> Who said anything about "invest"? So you think also pay retail for such
> items? I bet you think all wreckers' yards are paragons of honesty and
> virtue too?
>
> >The bypass unit uses a unique auto program sequence to learn code
> >from the Key Cylinder Module and repeats it when activated
> >or grounding a wire, eliminating the need to have the victim's key in
> >vehicle. This device can be left installed or uninstalled in the victim's
> >car, leaving you clueless until it's too late. This is fact,
>
> It's not exactly a "repeat".

If it starts right up without the owner's
key, it's repeating something.

> which is why I said it takes a couple of years.

Technology is quicker than innovation. The NKR
Transponder Interface is being sold and works for:

Honda Civic 2001-03
Honda CRV 2002-03
Honda Element 2003
Acura 1.7 EL 2001
Acura MDX 2003
Acura RSX 2002-03
Honda Accord 2003

That's only a year away.

> With enough encryption, it *could* be made
>secure... within the known bounds of cryptography.

Only until then, this would be costly to make.

> That'll only work if the algorithm for the
> rolling codes is known...

Hmm...never heard of a transponder capable
of rolling it's code. Can you cite an example?
Indy

Howard Lester wrote:

> "Gus" wrote
>
>
>>SF wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I work in Forensics
>>
>>Forensics what?
>
>
> Forensics, New Jersey. It's just east of Passaic.

LOL! On the banks of the mighty Hackensack River?

"Gus" wrote

> >>>I work in Forensics

> >>Forensics what?

> > Forensics, New Jersey. It's just east of Passaic.
>
> LOL! On the banks of the mighty Hackensack River?

Whose source is the Hackenbush Creek.




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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:46:39 GMT, "Indian Summer" <Almonds@pistachios.com>
wrote:

>>"George Macdonald"
<<snip>>

>> Who said anything about "invest"? So you think also pay retail for such
>> items? I bet you think all wreckers' yards are paragons of honesty and
>> virtue too?
>>
>> >The bypass unit uses a unique auto program sequence to learn code
>> >from the Key Cylinder Module and repeats it when activated
>> >or grounding a wire, eliminating the need to have the victim's key in
>> >vehicle. This device can be left installed or uninstalled in the victim's
>> >car, leaving you clueless until it's too late. This is fact,
>>
>> It's not exactly a "repeat".
>
>If it starts right up without the owner's
>key, it's repeating something.

Simple algorithms are umm, easy to learn.

>> which is why I said it takes a couple of years.
>
>Technology is quicker than innovation.

D'oh! Innovation is dependent on technology.

> The NKR
>Transponder Interface is being sold and works for:
>
>Honda Civic 2001-03
>Honda CRV 2002-03
>Honda Element 2003
>Acura 1.7 EL 2001
>Acura MDX 2003
>Acura RSX 2002-03
>Honda Accord 2003
>
>That's only a year away.

What? It's being sold but it's only a year away?

>> With enough encryption, it *could* be made
>>secure... within the known bounds of cryptography.
>
>Only until then, this would be costly to make.

Nope.

>> That'll only work if the algorithm for the
>> rolling codes is known...
>
>Hmm...never heard of a transponder capable
>of rolling it's code. Can you cite an example?

Nope. I do not save every URL and reference site I visit.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??