Honda Car Forum

Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
years before it tore and the joint started clicking. As i was getting
it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
pissed!

Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!

I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
failing. I have not heard one actual event of this happening. I even
asked many mechanics and none have seen or heard of a catastrophic
event where the CV joint failed and the car was undriveable. Not one
event anywhere!

Hmmmm......

I have some questions:

1. Do the half-axle and CV joint manufacturers use the cheapest rubber
boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?

2. Do auto shops spread around the same old lies (here on the internet
too!) and scare tactics that if a dont replace your CV joint, it will
fail by the wheels falling off, freezing up while your driving, etc
etc?

3. Are the auto repair trades and the manufacturers of these CV joints
all in cohootz with each other, using FEAR to increase business for
themselves?

I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
failure, but more of a slow predictable one.

I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
the CV joints ride for a few more years.....

Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
the tracks and my tires fall off.....

"Baker Hamilton" <baker_hamilton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:30f4315.0312070022.68e61483@posting.google.co m...
> Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
> made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
> years before it tore and the joint started clicking. As i was getting
> it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
> shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
> caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
> pissed!

a repair by a reputable shop using good parts should last 100k miles.
>
> Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
> for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!

you can always flush the grease out, regrease, and put a split boot kit on
>
> I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
> fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
> failing. I have not heard one actual event of this happening. I even
> asked many mechanics and none have seen or heard of a catastrophic
> event where the CV joint failed and the car was undriveable. Not one
> event anywhere!
>
> Hmmmm......
>
> I have some questions:
>
> 1. Do the half-axle and CV joint manufacturers use the cheapest rubber
> boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?

nope. OEM boots can last over 100k miles. depends on weather, driving
habits, etc.
>
> 2. Do auto shops spread around the same old lies (here on the internet
> too!) and scare tactics that if a dont replace your CV joint, it will
> fail by the wheels falling off, freezing up while your driving, etc
> etc?

the joints would have to be REALLY bad for that to happen. when mine go, i
plan on doing it myself, with a complete axle kit.
>
> 3. Are the auto repair trades and the manufacturers of these CV joints
> all in cohootz with each other, using FEAR to increase business for
> themselves?

no
>
> I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
> failure, but more of a slow predictable one.

theyll get louder, sure.
>
> I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
> joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
> the CV joints ride for a few more years.....

if youre going to junk the car, just drive it. if youre planning on selling
it and getting some money for it, they should be fixed.
>
> Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
> the tracks and my tires fall off.....

your wheels wont fall off, but if the joint fragments, youll be stranded.

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HSBAb.446325$HS4.3508113@attbi_s01...
> > Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
> > the tracks and my tires fall off.....
>
> your wheels wont fall off, but if the joint fragments, youll be stranded.

I've had it happen twice, on two different cars.

Yup, you roll to a stop. No fun.

baker_hamilton@yahoo.com (Baker Hamilton) spake unto the slack-jawed masses
in news:30f4315.0312070022.68e61483@posting.google.co m:

> Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
> made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
> years before it tore and the joint started clicking.


This is sort of like the timing belt issue. Neglect timely
inspection/changes and you will suffer unpleasant consequences.

CV joints on Hondas fail due to neglect. People do not make sure they have
the boots inspected at every oil change. Since many people patronize the
quick-lube places for oil changes, it would be nice if the staff there
would give the CV boots a once-over while they're down there. Only takes a
few seconds and might help save thousands of dollars.


> As i was getting
> it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
> shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
> caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
> pissed!


CV joints are money-maker because nobody ever checks them until the boot
actually tears. By then it's usually too late and replacement is the only
option.


>
> Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
> for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!
>
> I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
> fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
> failing.


I have. Many times. Just like timing belts.


> 1) Do the half-axle and CV joint manufactureres use the cheapest
> rubber boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?


Yes, but not so the boots will break earlier, but to get the price down.
There's a reason aftermarket and aftermarket-rebuilt parts are cheaper than
factory.

Also when you buy aftermarket, you are vulnerable to the variable quality
that exists in that market. There are good guys and bad guys. The bad guys
will cut corners which will have a negative impact on quality and
longevity.

Your only defense against the bad guys is to use a reputable workshop, and
to make sure you tell them that you don't mind spending $50-100 or so extra
to get better quality. They will like this as it means a lower likelihood
of you coming back because you're unsatisfied with the repair.


>
> I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
> failure, but more of a slow predictable one.


Yes, but eventually the balls *will* disintegrate and the shaft will seize.
"Slow and predictable" means nothing when people ignore symptoms or try to
get "just one more month" out of the car, which they usually do.


>
> I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
> joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
> the CV joints ride for a few more years.....


Get AAA (or CAA) and have your cell phone charged up. Also put aside money
for the new tires you will probably need when your CV joints finally seize
and you flat-spot your tires.

Remember people: Inspecting frequently can save you all of Baker Hamilton's
headaches!


--
TeGGeR®

My experience with a '90 accord is similar to yours...it seemed that the rubber
would only last a couple of years...I was always told by the dealer that the
winter months (I'm in Canada) are hard on cv boots. Finally about 6-7 years
ago, I had life-time warranteed cv axles installed at Canadian Tire. Now if the
dealer (or Crappy Tire) mentions something about a torn cv boot, I only pay
about 1 hr labour to get an entire new cv axle installed. Funny too, the
frequency of boot failures seems to have gone down..its been more than 3 years
since my last new cv axle. Guess I'm not a cash-cow anymore!!

DB

baker_hamilton@yahoo.com (Baker Hamilton) wrote:

>Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
>made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
>years before it tore and the joint started clicking. As i was getting
>it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
>shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
>caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
>pissed!
>
>Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
>for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!
>
>I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
>fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
>failing. I have not heard one actual event of this happening. I even
>asked many mechanics and none have seen or heard of a catastrophic
>event where the CV joint failed and the car was undriveable. Not one
>event anywhere!
>
>Hmmmm......
>
>I have some questions:
>
>1. Do the half-axle and CV joint manufacturers use the cheapest rubber
>boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?
>
>2. Do auto shops spread around the same old lies (here on the internet
>too!) and scare tactics that if a dont replace your CV joint, it will
>fail by the wheels falling off, freezing up while your driving, etc
>etc?
>
>3. Are the auto repair trades and the manufacturers of these CV joints
>all in cohootz with each other, using FEAR to increase business for
>themselves?
>
>I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
>failure, but more of a slow predictable one.
>
>I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
>joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
>the CV joints ride for a few more years.....
>
>Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
>the tracks and my tires fall off.....

baker_hamilton@yahoo.com (Baker Hamilton) wrote in message news:<30f4315.0312070022.68e61483@posting.google.c om>...
> Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
> made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
> years before it tore and the joint started clicking. As i was getting
> it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
> shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
> caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
> pissed!
>
> Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
> for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!
>
> I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
> fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
> failing. I have not heard one actual event of this happening. I even
> asked many mechanics and none have seen or heard of a catastrophic
> event where the CV joint failed and the car was undriveable. Not one
> event anywhere!
>
> Hmmmm......
>
> I have some questions:
>
> 1. Do the half-axle and CV joint manufacturers use the cheapest rubber
> boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?
>
> 2. Do auto shops spread around the same old lies (here on the internet
> too!) and scare tactics that if a dont replace your CV joint, it will
> fail by the wheels falling off, freezing up while your driving, etc
> etc?
>
> 3. Are the auto repair trades and the manufacturers of these CV joints
> all in cohootz with each other, using FEAR to increase business for
> themselves?
>
> I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
> failure, but more of a slow predictable one.
>
> I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
> joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
> the CV joints ride for a few more years.....
>
> Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
> the tracks and my tires fall off.....


Yes, I've had complete axle failure happen to me. In fact, a couple
of things happened that caused a catastrophic failure the transmission
too. I had a clicking CV joint and drove with it that way for several
thousand miles because of a cracked boot. Eventually the joint failed
enough to cause the portion of the axle that connects to the
transmission to pop out enough to open the seal to the inside of the
tranny. I didn't know this at the time but I lost a significant
amount of tranny fluid. Eventually the bearing where the axle slides
into in the gear box burned up because of dirt and crap getting into
the gear box. I didn't discover the damage to the gear box immediately
but the axle eventually failed to the point the car would not go. It
was after having the axle replaced and the new axle again popped out
of the gear box after several hundred miles thats when I suspected
damage to the tranny. I pushed the axle back into place and noticed a
lot of side to side play in the connection to the transmission. I
compared that to the axle on the other side of the tranny which was
tight. I popped in, replenished the gear box fluid and drove it
again. Eventually the bearing failed completely. It made a nasty
noise. Suffice it to say after having a failed axle I ended up with a
new 5 speed transmission at the tune of $2500. So it pays to check
those boots yourself on a regular basis, just don't rely on the
service people.

From my experience it is cheaper to replace the whole axle shaft than
replace just the boot. There is labor time involved with replacing the boot.
After market axle shaft prices have come down enough. It might be smarter to
price out replacing the whole axle shaft compaired to just the boot.

"Bob W." <rwalter@engineer.com> wrote in message
news:73aa3471.0312080417.75ac8851@posting.google.c om...
> baker_hamilton@yahoo.com (Baker Hamilton) wrote in message
news:<30f4315.0312070022.68e61483@posting.google.c om>...
> > Hi, I got my cv joints changed twice within the last five years. They
> > made alot of money off of me. The 2nd time, the boots only lasted 2
> > years before it tore and the joint started clicking. As i was getting
> > it fixed for the 2nd time, i was sitting in the waiting room of the
> > shop. I noticed an auto-repair trade magazine that had a pic and
> > caption that said: "CV Joints the money-maker of the future". I was
> > pissed!
> >
> > Now, my boots are broken again and the joints have been clicking...
> > for 4 years. My friend has had his clicking for 14 years!!
> >
> > I am starting to think the this whole new "CV joint business" is a
> > fraud! I started to ask around if anyone has heard of a CV joint
> > failing. I have not heard one actual event of this happening. I even
> > asked many mechanics and none have seen or heard of a catastrophic
> > event where the CV joint failed and the car was undriveable. Not one
> > event anywhere!
> >
> > Hmmmm......
> >
> > I have some questions:
> >
> > 1. Do the half-axle and CV joint manufacturers use the cheapest rubber
> > boots on purpose so the boot will break earlier?
> >
> > 2. Do auto shops spread around the same old lies (here on the internet
> > too!) and scare tactics that if a dont replace your CV joint, it will
> > fail by the wheels falling off, freezing up while your driving, etc
> > etc?
> >
> > 3. Are the auto repair trades and the manufacturers of these CV joints
> > all in cohootz with each other, using FEAR to increase business for
> > themselves?
> >
> > I heard on Click and Clak that the CV joints will not cause a sudden
> > failure, but more of a slow predictable one.
> >
> > I'm wondering if i should spend $500 to change all the busted CV
> > joints+boots but putting in half-shafts or whole axles... or just let
> > the CV joints ride for a few more years.....
> >
> > Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
> > the tracks and my tires fall off.....
>
>
> Yes, I've had complete axle failure happen to me. In fact, a couple
> of things happened that caused a catastrophic failure the transmission
> too. I had a clicking CV joint and drove with it that way for several
> thousand miles because of a cracked boot. Eventually the joint failed
> enough to cause the portion of the axle that connects to the
> transmission to pop out enough to open the seal to the inside of the
> tranny. I didn't know this at the time but I lost a significant
> amount of tranny fluid. Eventually the bearing where the axle slides
> into in the gear box burned up because of dirt and crap getting into
> the gear box. I didn't discover the damage to the gear box immediately
> but the axle eventually failed to the point the car would not go. It
> was after having the axle replaced and the new axle again popped out
> of the gear box after several hundred miles thats when I suspected
> damage to the tranny. I pushed the axle back into place and noticed a
> lot of side to side play in the connection to the transmission. I
> compared that to the axle on the other side of the tranny which was
> tight. I popped in, replenished the gear box fluid and drove it
> again. Eventually the bearing failed completely. It made a nasty
> noise. Suffice it to say after having a failed axle I ended up with a
> new 5 speed transmission at the tune of $2500. So it pays to check
> those boots yourself on a regular basis, just don't rely on the
> service people.

"Michael Simon" <msimon800@hotmail.com> spake unto the masses in
news:vtaf8v3r3c6n25@corp.supernews.com:

> From my experience it is cheaper to replace the whole axle shaft than
> replace just the boot. There is labor time involved with replacing the
> boot. After market axle shaft prices have come down enough. It might
> be smarter to price out replacing the whole axle shaft compaired to
> just the boot.


If the shafts are still factory and have never suffered a broken boot, I'd
keep them and replace the boot only. The factory CV joints will last
forever if never exposed to dirt and water. You can't beat the quality of
the factory CV joints and drivshafts.

--
TeGGeR®

Mike et.al.:

Well from my experience, with a bad CV joint on a '91 Plymouth Grand Voyager,
you have a grace period of about 1,000 miles between the time that you notice
that you MIGHT have a CV joint problem and the time you KNOW you have a
problem. Because the car is shaking so much at that point, you actually get out
and make sure that the wheel is held on by more that one loose lugnut.
-Steve
In article <HSBAb.446325$HS4.3508113@attbi_s01>, "SoCalMike"
<mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> writes:

>> Let's hear all you auto mechanics tell me how my car will stop dead in
>> the tracks and my tires fall off.....
>
>your wheels wont fall off, but if the joint fragments, youll be stranded.
>

I've seen an accord with over 300,000 miles on the original joints. If you
do brake open a boot and need the joint replaced, sometimes it's better to
have it rebuilt. A cv-shaft shop where I live uses Rockford CV components
and only VERY rarely have I ever seen a problem with their rebuilt
assemblies. This is probably because they aren't crooks and actually
inspect the shafts to see if they are even build-able.

http://www.rockfordcv.com/

> If the shafts are still factory and have never suffered a broken boot, I'd
> keep them and replace the boot only. The factory CV joints will last
> forever if never exposed to dirt and water. You can't beat the quality of
> the factory CV joints and drivshafts.