Honda Car Forum

Hello,

With the previous three new cars I've owned, all front-wheel drive, I
drove them well past 100K mi. with each of them. But with all of
them, I've had to replace the CV joints for the same reason: the boots
dry out and crack, the grease comes out, and the dirt gets in.

Now, with my relatively new car, I wish to be able to avoid or prevent
that from happening again, so I did some research on CV joint
maintenance, and everything I've read talked about what to do when the
boots crack. Nothing about how to prolong their life or prevent those
boots from cracking.

The cost of the parts really isn't a problem, but you guys probably
know, it's a very labour intensive and time consuming repaire.

What's rather preplexing to me is that I read often how some people
who've put on >150K mi. on their previous cars, some having owned
about 5 or 6 different cars in the past and even living in northeast,
and never had a CV joint problem due to the boots cracking or failing,
let alone the CV joints itself going bad.

So, my question is, does anyone have a time proven or a definitive way
to prevent the boots from failing? I read how some would liberally
apply silicone spray on the CV boots and other boots everytime they
changed the oil. Would that be a good way to prolong the life of or
prevent the boots from cracking prematurely?

Any other suggestions or insight into this would be greatly
aprpciated. Thanks for your time and courtesy.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:36:10 GMT, Crikey Schmikey <no@spam.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>With the previous three new cars I've owned, all front-wheel drive, I
>drove them well past 100K mi. with each of them. But with all of
>them, I've had to replace the CV joints for the same reason: the boots
>dry out and crack, the grease comes out, and the dirt gets in.

Yup, it happens.

>Now, with my relatively new car, I wish to be able to avoid or prevent
>that from happening again, so I did some research on CV joint
>maintenance, and everything I've read talked about what to do when the
>boots crack. Nothing about how to prolong their life or prevent those
>boots from cracking.

The boots are in a really harsh environment. Eventually, they go. If
you inspect them regularly you can sometimes replace the boot itself
before damage occurs to the joint, but it's not really worth it. I
figure that if the boot is torn, I don't want to mess with it, it's
not worth spending $25 for a new boot when I could spend $60 and have
a known good remanufactured unit and not have to deal with the mess of
just replacing the boot.

I took a picture of someone elses nightmare.. They were changing just
the boots... http://mailsack.org/cv.jpg Looks messy..

>The cost of the parts really isn't a problem, but you guys probably
>know, it's a very labour intensive and time consuming repaire.

Swapping the CV axles typically isn't a big deal. Pull the wheels,
knuckles, remove a couple of bolts holding the unit in, and pull
straight out. Air hammer is sometimes helpful breaking the steering
knuckle loose. Thats all it was on a Nissan Altima I worked on
semi-recently. Total time to swap both axles was less than 2 hours.

>What's rather preplexing to me is that I read often how some people
>who've put on >150K mi. on their previous cars, some having owned
>about 5 or 6 different cars in the past and even living in northeast,
>and never had a CV joint problem due to the boots cracking or failing,
>let alone the CV joints itself going bad.

Luck?


__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
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Crikey Schmikey <no@spam.com> spake unto the assembled masses in
news:10misv0kl032bjl8nhusktno3h0puped45@4ax.com:

> Hello,
>
> With the previous three new cars I've owned, all front-wheel drive, I
> drove them well past 100K mi. with each of them. But with all of
> them, I've had to replace the CV joints for the same reason: the boots
> dry out and crack, the grease comes out, and the dirt gets in.


The boots crack due to a combination of cold and steering stresses. If the
boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will last
almost indefinitely in any environment.


>
> Now, with my relatively new car, I wish to be able to avoid or prevent
> that from happening again, so I did some research on CV joint
> maintenance, and everything I've read talked about what to do when the
> boots crack. Nothing about how to prolong their life or prevent those
> boots from cracking.


There is nothing you can do to prevent cracking (except for never turning
the steering wheel), but lots you can do to prevent CV joint damage.

CV joints go bad chiefly because the boots split and water gets in. If you
inspect the boots at every oil change, you will eventually find some
cracking in the insides of the bellows folds (spread the folds apart a bit
to see them more clearly). Once those cracks start appearing, you have
maybe a year to two years before the cracks become holes. I replace my
boots as soon as I start seeing cracking.

If you spot and replace cracking boots before they hole, you can make your
CV joints last the life of the car, so says my Japanese mechanic. My '91
Integra has 218,000 miles and the original driveshafts and CV joints. The
boots have been changed twice.

The very newest Civic CV joint boots are made from some sort of plastic
material that is supposed to be far more durable than the rubber that was
previously used. These are the boots that were installed on the Integra
last spring.


>
> So, my question is, does anyone have a time proven or a definitive way
> to prevent the boots from failing? I read how some would liberally
> apply silicone spray on the CV boots and other boots everytime they
> changed the oil. Would that be a good way to prolong the life of or
> prevent the boots from cracking prematurely?


Nope. Doesn't work. It's the cold and the steering that kills the boots.

And I'd bite the bullet and get the proper solid boots put on by a
professional. If you live in a cold/snowy area, split boots will open up
fairly quickly and let water in, killing your joints anyway.


--
TeGGeR®

TeGGeR wrote:

> The boots crack due to a combination of cold

cold is adverse only if is beyond freezing point, warmth is actually
more damaging to rubber.

and steering stresses. If the
> boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will last
> almost indefinitely in any environment.

Really, that's a whopper! Do you have any arguments to support that?



>
>
> There is nothing you can do to prevent cracking (except for never turning
> the steering wheel


that won't change anything much, the rubber gets dry and cracked just
from being exposed to the environment. Main killer for it is ozone (no,
I'm not an environmentalist) If you ever had the chance to inspect a car
kept many years in a garage, you'd have noticed that all the rubbers
aged and cracked.



> CV joints go bad chiefly because the boots split and water gets in.


Actually is the sand which mixes with the grease and forms an abrasive
paste which damages the friction surfaces. Single water will not damage
the joint unless you hose it into the joint.

Becker <becker@hotmail.com> spake unto the assembled masses in
news:UVLyb.88658$oN2.36769@edtnps84:

>
>
> TeGGeR wrote:
>
>> The boots crack due to a combination of cold
>
> cold is adverse only if is beyond freezing point, warmth is actually
> more damaging to rubber.


Winter cold hardens the rubber and makes it less able to flex, hence the
cracking. Of course, winter cold in California as not the same thing as
winter cold in Barrow, Alaska.


>
> and steering stresses. If the
>> boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will
>> last almost indefinitely in any environment.
>
> Really, that's a whopper! Do you have any arguments to support that?


Check any Toyota MR2. Up to and including the first 1985s. Very few of
those ever suffered split CV joint boots, since the rears did not steer. We
recently sold our old '86 with 140,000 mi. It had the original CV joint
boots. No cracking of any kind was present in any of the bellows.



>
>
>
>>
>>
>> There is nothing you can do to prevent cracking (except for never
>> turning the steering wheel
>
>
> that won't change anything much, the rubber gets dry and cracked just
> from being exposed to the environment. Main killer for it is ozone
> (no, I'm not an environmentalist) If you ever had the chance to
> inspect a car kept many years in a garage, you'd have noticed that all
> the rubbers aged and cracked.


Splitting hairs here. Most people complaining of split boots are talking
about their daily drivers.


>
>
>
>> CV joints go bad chiefly because the boots split and water gets in.
>
>
> Actually is the sand which mixes with the grease and forms an abrasive
> paste which damages the friction surfaces. Single water will not
> damage the joint unless you hose it into the joint.


Shall we split more hairs? Road water by definition is full of grit. You
*know* what I mean.

--
TeGGeR®

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:55:42 GMT, TeGGeR
<teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

[snipped an excellent and much appreciated response]

TeGGeR, thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to inspect for cracks in
the boots every oil change and replace them as necessary.

Steve Lee <no@spam.com> spake unto the assembled masses in
news:q8qnsv843le46tgggs2bue8crh109l5a3v@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:55:42 GMT, TeGGeR
> <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:
>
> [snipped an excellent and much appreciated response]
>
> TeGGeR, thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to inspect for cracks in
> the boots every oil change and replace them as necessary.


You're welcome.

Don't know what car you've got, but if it has unequal-length driveshafts
(no center shaft and bearing), pay particular attention to the one on the
differential side. This one will crack first because it runs at steeper
angles relative to the axis of the wheel.

The cracks generally start on the largest part of the bellows first, and
only on part of the circumference, so check all around in good light.



--
TeGGeR®

I actually enjoyed the "grace" you turned your pseudo-knowledge into a
"splitting hair" case. I bet you can turn a tune-up job into a engine
swap with the same ability. Do you work for AAMCO?
I know too well your weekend warrior type. Doing most of my side repairs
outside, not in garage, there are way too many passer-by over anxious to
show off their mechanical wisdom and waste my time with their ignorance.
To you, the difference between hot and cold (you don't warm up your
meal, you put it in the fridge before you eat it), water and sand (water
contains sand and sand contains water, isn't it?) it's a splitting hair
matter.

TeGGeR wrote:
> Becker <becker@hotmail.com> spake unto the assembled masses in
> news:UVLyb.88658$oN2.36769@edtnps84:
>
>
>>
>>TeGGeR wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The boots crack due to a combination of cold
>>
>>cold is adverse only if is beyond freezing point, warmth is actually
>>more damaging to rubber.
>


I changed more boots in LA than when I was living in NY.


> Winter cold hardens the rubber and makes it less able to flex, hence the
> cracking. Of course, winter cold in California as not the same thing as
> winter cold in Barrow, Alaska.


Which you were actually talking about, isn't it?

If the
>>
>>>boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will
>>>last almost indefinitely in any environment.
>>
>>Really, that's a whopper! Do you have any arguments to support that?
>
>
>
> Check any Toyota MR2. Up to and including the first 1985s.


And 18 years is "almost" an eternity. Than at 50 you'll consider
yourself practically immortal!
LOL, ROTFLMAO!


We
> recently sold our old '86 with 140,000 mi. It had the original CV joint
> boots. No cracking of any kind was present in any of the bellows.


Wow, I imagine how thrilled the buyer was that you inspected the boots
before selling the car!


> Splitting hairs here.
> Shall we split more hairs?

Becker <becker@hotmail.com> spake unto the assembled masses in
news:jKUyb.231439$jy.168332@clgrps13:

> I actually enjoyed the "grace" you turned your pseudo-knowledge into a
> "splitting hair" case. I bet you can turn a tune-up job into a engine
> swap with the same ability. Do you work for AAMCO?
> I know too well your weekend warrior type.


Everything I posted is based on extensive discussions with my Japanese
mechanic, who has thirty years experience working daily on Japanese cars.
These discussions came up due to my own need to have my boots replaced, so
I had a vested interest in getting the straight goods.

He runs his own shop, which among many other things, replaces boots and CV
joints every single day of the week. He knows why they fail. He sees many
instances of people trying to replace their own boots with the "split boot"
type, and knows the pitfalls and shortcomings of that method.

This guy can tell you all sorts of little insider tips, such as exactly
what Subaru lock ring can be used to hold the Civic CV joint boot in place,
and how it's better than the Honda design. He can rebuild CV joints and
literally anything else found on or in a car.

After 20 years relying on this guy's services over the ownership of six
cars, I trust him much more than I trust me or you.


--
TeGGeR®

> The boots crack due to a combination of cold and steering stresses. If the
> boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will last
> almost indefinitely in any environment.

Not true. I've had to replace several rear CV boots on several on my various
AWD Subarus.