Honda Car Forum

In addition, you can check to make sure that (while the ignition's on) when
you remove the lid of the master cylinder, the magnetic float in there
actually descends on it stalk, and actually lights the dashboard brake
warning light.

Also: no one has said this outright, but this is (possibly) actually
dangerous. Once the master cylinder starts to fail this way, it is possible
for it to fail completely, at which point you could have diminished braking
action, or none at all!

-Arthur


melbourne wrote:
> Thanks Curly,
>
> I checked each of the brake bleeding nipples but none of them have any signs
> of leakage.
>
> The brake fluid is at the MAX mark and does not seem to be losing any fluid.
>
> How does one do a lamp test? Isn't it a matter of turning the ignition on
> and checking that all the dash warning lights come on?
>
>
> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco_@_interbaun.com> wrote in message
> news:3FBC4E23.50406@_interbaun.com...
>
>>Melborne,
>>
>>Whatever you do (or don't do), check your brake fluid reservoir every
>>day, to make sure you're not losing some of that fluid somewhere (like
>>into one of the brake drums)
>>
>>Do the 'lamp test' as well to be sure your dash lights will give you
>>some warning in advance.... It's in your owner's manual.
>>
>>'Curly'
>>
>>--------------
>>
>>melbourne wrote:
>>
>>>Vehicle: 1994 Civic with no ABS
>>>
>>>Problem: I am having a weird problem with my brakes. A few days ago,
>
> on a
>
>>>stinking hot day, I was at a set of traffic lights, when suddenly, my
>
> brake
>
>>>pedal began to slowly sink to the floor. The brakes worked fine and
>
> would
>
>>>stop the car, even under severe braking. The only problem would be that
>
> the
>
>>>brakes, when depressed would begin to sink to the floor after a few
>
> seconds.
>
>>>They were fine in the morning and fine in the evening. The only
>
> difference
>
>>>was that when I drove the car during the day, the weather was over 35
>>>degrees C. This problem occurred twice and each time it occurred, it
>
> was on
>
>>>a hot day. As the day became cooler or when the car is driven on a day
>>>below 35 degrees C, the brakes behave normally?
>>>
>>>Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
>>you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.
>>
>>Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
>>you should not play any notes you have left over. -
>>
>
>
>

I had this problem earlier this summer.

Turned out to be the master cylinder starting to fail.
Getting it replaced too care of my problem.

Arthur Russell <atr@REMOVE-CAPS-AND-INVALIDbellatlantic.net.invalid>
wrote in news:Gyxvb.820$rS5.685@nwrdny02.gnilink.net:

> In addition, you can check to make sure that (while the ignition's on)
> when you remove the lid of the master cylinder, the magnetic float in
> there actually descends on it stalk, and actually lights the dashboard
> brake warning light.
>
> Also: no one has said this outright, but this is (possibly) actually
> dangerous. Once the master cylinder starts to fail this way, it is
> possible for it to fail completely, at which point you could have
> diminished braking action, or none at all!
>
> -Arthur
>
>

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eugene Mah, M.Sc., DABR eugenem@ix.netcom.com
Medical Physicist maheug@musc.edu
"For I am a Bear of Very Little
Brain, and long words Bother
http://radinfo.musc.edu/~eugenem/blog/ me." - Winnie the Pooh
http://www.netcom.com/~eugenem/ ICQ 3113529
PGP KeyID = 0x1F9779FD or 0xE37A1591 PGP key available on request O-
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the word of caution Arthur,

The weird thing about the brakes on my car is that they have been working
perfectly and have not played up since the day I first entered this original
post. Therefore, it is possible that this has been going on for quite some
time and may continue to do so unless the weather gets very hot.

I called a dealership today and they said that the brakes may need bleeding
Could this be the cause of the problem?




"Arthur Russell" <atr@REMOVE-CAPS-AND-INVALIDbellatlantic.net.invalid> wrote
in message news:Gyxvb.820$rS5.685@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> In addition, you can check to make sure that (while the ignition's on)
when
> you remove the lid of the master cylinder, the magnetic float in there
> actually descends on it stalk, and actually lights the dashboard brake
> warning light.
>
> Also: no one has said this outright, but this is (possibly) actually
> dangerous. Once the master cylinder starts to fail this way, it is
possible
> for it to fail completely, at which point you could have diminished
braking
> action, or none at all!
>
> -Arthur
>
>
> melbourne wrote:
> > Thanks Curly,
> >
> > I checked each of the brake bleeding nipples but none of them have any
signs
> > of leakage.
> >
> > The brake fluid is at the MAX mark and does not seem to be losing any
fluid.
> >
> > How does one do a lamp test? Isn't it a matter of turning the ignition
on
> > and checking that all the dash warning lights come on?
> >
> >
> > "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco_@_interbaun.com> wrote in message
> > news:3FBC4E23.50406@_interbaun.com...
> >
> >>Melborne,
> >>
> >>Whatever you do (or don't do), check your brake fluid reservoir every
> >>day, to make sure you're not losing some of that fluid somewhere (like
> >>into one of the brake drums)
> >>
> >>Do the 'lamp test' as well to be sure your dash lights will give you
> >>some warning in advance.... It's in your owner's manual.
> >>
> >>'Curly'
> >>
> >>--------------
> >>
> >>melbourne wrote:
> >>
> >>>Vehicle: 1994 Civic with no ABS
> >>>
> >>>Problem: I am having a weird problem with my brakes. A few days ago,
> >
> > on a
> >
> >>>stinking hot day, I was at a set of traffic lights, when suddenly, my
> >
> > brake
> >
> >>>pedal began to slowly sink to the floor. The brakes worked fine and
> >
> > would
> >
> >>>stop the car, even under severe braking. The only problem would be
that
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>brakes, when depressed would begin to sink to the floor after a few
> >
> > seconds.
> >
> >>>They were fine in the morning and fine in the evening. The only
> >
> > difference
> >
> >>>was that when I drove the car during the day, the weather was over 35
> >>>degrees C. This problem occurred twice and each time it occurred, it
> >
> > was on
> >
> >>>a hot day. As the day became cooler or when the car is driven on a day
> >>>below 35 degrees C, the brakes behave normally?
> >>>
> >>>Any ideas?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
> >>you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.
> >>
> >>Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
> >>you should not play any notes you have left over. -
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:08:08 +1100, "melbourne" <jjjjjj@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Thanks for the word of caution Arthur,
>
>The weird thing about the brakes on my car is that they have been working
>perfectly and have not played up since the day I first entered this original
>post. Therefore, it is possible that this has been going on for quite some
>time and may continue to do so unless the weather gets very hot.
>
>I called a dealership today and they said that the brakes may need bleeding
>Could this be the cause of the problem?

No. If they needed bleeding they would be bad all the time. Plus,
the very act of bleeding them may do further damage to the MC.

With cooler weather setting in, you may not notice the problem until
next Spring. I went about two years with this problem - never really
felt dangerous and I forgot all about it October through April. It
was gradually getting worse though. (I would have fixed it sooner but
I wasn't sure of the cause. However, I didn't have a problem all
summer after replacing the MC this Spring.

I had the master cylinder fail on my 91 Accord (also no ABS). The symptom
was that on a short trip home, I noticed that when stopping at a light (a
gradual stop, with not too much pedal pressure) the pedal seemed to go
slightly past the point that I was used to. For the next light, I hit it a
bit harder to see what was going on, and it was totally fine. So, I got
home, dropped my wife off, and experimented with it for a minute.

I found that if I pushed gently, I could definitely get the pedal to "slip"
past the usual point where it becomes rock hard. In fact, I found that if I
really feathered around with it, I could almost get it to the floor.
Because the pedal was still solid at the bottom of the travel, there was
almost certainly no air in the lines. I suspected the master cylinder was
failing. The next day my shop confirmed this and replaced it; the problem
was fixed.

Listen, everyone's philosophy differs here. Some folks may make a conscious
decision to drive carefully, or downshift, or be ready with the emergency
brake etc. Other folks, me for example, are pretty anal when it comes to
brakes. I always have the fluid flushed every two years. I never add fluid
- if it's low, the pads are wearing and I see to them, or I find the leak.
Don't just replace pads yourself, take apart the calipers and do the
complete maintenance (lube guide pins, inspect boots etc.) And, if the
master cylinder starts to fail, although the system has two independent
hydraulic circuits, assume that you have just experienced the "first
failure", and the second one will be when you REALLY NEED THE BRAKES TO WORK!

So, please duplicate your problem to a shop that you trust, and have them
fix it. Try the light pressure, slow pedal thing I mentioned. If the shop
determines the cause of the pedal behavior is something
non-life-threatening, like a faulty booster or a little air in the lines,
then chalk it up to being too safety conscious...but I am betting on the
master cylinder, and you need it to be working right.

Good luck,
Arthur



melbourne wrote:
> Thanks for the word of caution Arthur,
>
> The weird thing about the brakes on my car is that they have been working
> perfectly and have not played up since the day I first entered this original
> post. Therefore, it is possible that this has been going on for quite some
> time and may continue to do so unless the weather gets very hot.
>
> I called a dealership today and they said that the brakes may need bleeding
> Could this be the cause of the problem?
>
>
>
>
> "Arthur Russell" <atr@REMOVE-CAPS-AND-INVALIDbellatlantic.net.invalid> wrote
> in message news:Gyxvb.820$rS5.685@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
>
>>In addition, you can check to make sure that (while the ignition's on)
>
> when
>
>>you remove the lid of the master cylinder, the magnetic float in there
>>actually descends on it stalk, and actually lights the dashboard brake
>>warning light.
>>
>>Also: no one has said this outright, but this is (possibly) actually
>>dangerous. Once the master cylinder starts to fail this way, it is
>
> possible
>
>>for it to fail completely, at which point you could have diminished
>
> braking
>
>>action, or none at all!
>>
>>-Arthur
>>
>>
>>melbourne wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks Curly,
>>>
>>>I checked each of the brake bleeding nipples but none of them have any
>
> signs
>
>>>of leakage.
>>>
>>>The brake fluid is at the MAX mark and does not seem to be losing any
>
> fluid.
>
>>>How does one do a lamp test? Isn't it a matter of turning the ignition
>
> on
>
>>>and checking that all the dash warning lights come on?
>>>
>>>
>>>"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco_@_interbaun.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3FBC4E23.50406@_interbaun.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Melborne,
>>>>
>>>>Whatever you do (or don't do), check your brake fluid reservoir every
>>>>day, to make sure you're not losing some of that fluid somewhere (like
>>>>into one of the brake drums)
>>>>
>>>>Do the 'lamp test' as well to be sure your dash lights will give you
>>>>some warning in advance.... It's in your owner's manual.
>>>>
>>>>'Curly'
>>>>
>>>>--------------
>>>>
>>>>melbourne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Vehicle: 1994 Civic with no ABS
>>>>>
>>>>>Problem: I am having a weird problem with my brakes. A few days ago,
>>>
>>>on a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>stinking hot day, I was at a set of traffic lights, when suddenly, my
>>>
>>>brake
>>>
>>>
>>>>>pedal began to slowly sink to the floor. The brakes worked fine and
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>
>>>>>stop the car, even under severe braking. The only problem would be
>
> that
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>brakes, when depressed would begin to sink to the floor after a few
>>>
>>>seconds.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>They were fine in the morning and fine in the evening. The only
>>>
>>>difference
>>>
>>>
>>>>>was that when I drove the car during the day, the weather was over 35
>>>>>degrees C. This problem occurred twice and each time it occurred, it
>>>
>>>was on
>>>
>>>
>>>>>a hot day. As the day became cooler or when the car is driven on a day
>>>>>below 35 degrees C, the brakes behave normally?
>>>>>
>>>>>Any ideas?

Master cylinder. It's bypassing internally, essentially transferring fluid
from one end to the other. Just change it out.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:26:45 +1100, "melbourne" <jjjjjj@hotmail.com> wrote:

|Vehicle: 1994 Civic with no ABS
|
|Problem: I am having a weird problem with my brakes. A few days ago, on a
|stinking hot day, I was at a set of traffic lights, when suddenly, my brake
|pedal began to slowly sink to the floor. The brakes worked fine and would
|stop the car, even under severe braking. The only problem would be that the
|brakes, when depressed would begin to sink to the floor after a few seconds.
|
|They were fine in the morning and fine in the evening. The only difference
|was that when I drove the car during the day, the weather was over 35
|degrees C. This problem occurred twice and each time it occurred, it was on
|a hot day. As the day became cooler or when the car is driven on a day
|below 35 degrees C, the brakes behave normally?
|
|Any ideas?
|
|
|

Rex in Fort Worth