Honda Car Forum

> > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>

I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.

I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).

While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.

C. E. White wrote:

>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>
>>You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
>>exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
>>such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.
>
>
> And you don't think the interior in a 4Runner is a basic plasticky interior? In
> my life I have had two cars where the interior plastic turned white with age -
> one was an Audi, the other a Toyota. The cheap plastic in the Toyota started
> cracking in less than 6 years.

Well, they ARE budget cars. That's the problem - and why Mitsubishi, Honda,
and Toyota are suffering lately. They are putting all of their real quality
and value into their real badges/names(their upper lines) and the lower basic
lines are just that - their equivalent of Timex watches. Well built, but not
a Seiko or Citizen.

Honestly, 20K is a lot of money. You should get more than a $50 plastic
dash that looks like it came out of a Neon. The new Camrys are not made
as well as the previous generation. My neighbor has had an older Camry
and a nweer one - and the newer one is almost twice as expensive per year
to maintain and impossible to work on. He says it's the last Toyota he
buys.

If I was to buy a new car, I'd go with a maker that only makes one line
of vehicles. Their "top" omodels are exactly that and the technology
and interiors of their midrange models shares a lot of simmilar traits.

BMW and Volvo are prime examples of this. Subaru and Nissan are more
budget minded versions as well. All make good vehicles that range
from budget to luxury, as well as sporty.(much droolage over the Z)

Timothy J. Lee wrote:

> In article <bUKsb.9199$nz.2555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
>>exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
>>such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.
>
>
> Although it would make sense for an SUV to have an easy-clean interior
> like the Wrangler or Element (or old SUV), as opposed to a "nice" interior
> that gets dirty easily and is hard to clean.

I personally love the Element except...

What were they thinking putting AWD in it and no real 4WD? Ag. So
close to getting everything right and worthless off-road.

In article <vr7mv8t86up78@news.supernews.com>, Dan J.S. wrote:
> I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
> would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
> operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
> (so it should not even be here).

When did Microsoft come up with a stable operating system? What
happened to that XP thingy?

Apple holds about a 3% overall PC market share and a 7% laptop
share:

http://www.macnn.com/news/21595

They have been as high as 3.8% this year.

The fact remains, however, that the effective life of Macs is more than
double that of commodity PCs, which means Apple loyalists buy less often.

In news:3FB3BBA8.6D29D555@mindspring.com,
C. E. White <cewhite3@mindspring.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> StonyMason@mailcity.com wrote:
>
> > What about Toyota's UAW union shop assembly plant in California?
> > The current CR. list the Buick Regal as better than the Camry,
> > Accord or Taurus.
>
> The Prizum is built in the California plant.
>
> Ed

The PRIZM ... was .. built in Fremont, CA. 2002 model year was the
last Prizm.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In news:r8Qsb.1528$ge.69088@read2.cgocable.net,
Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Philip® wrote:
>
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> >
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
> I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST.
> YOU SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME
> AND EMAIL.
>
> If you go back to my original post this is very clear.

My apologies. I'll be more careful. |^ (
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com>, being of unsound mind, did
utter in news:3FB3A31D.A8A1F8D9@mindspring.com:

> And you don't think the interior in a 4Runner is a basic plasticky
> interior? In my life I have had two cars where the interior plastic
> turned white with age


That's the corn starch that is used to make the plastic less shiny.


--
TeGGeR®

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote
> > > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
> Japan
> > > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest
engineers
> > go
> > > work for auto manufacturers.
> > >
> > > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
> >
> > In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> > and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> > for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> > and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
> >
> > Floyd
> >
>
> I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.

So, you wanna work on the AWACS plane? When it was delivered
to the AF in 1978 or so, it's computer was essentially - *AND STILL
IS TO THIS DAY* essentially an IBM 360 using 1970 tech. If a
computer went out the techs often went down to Radio Shack for
a capacitor to fix it.

I had a manager - this guy had a PhD in Math - that couldn't understand
that, if a compiler (under development) could do 1+2=2, it could also
do 2+2=4. We had other managers that believed that assembly code
was the only way to go to make tight code - they never could believe
that the *algorithms* and *requirements* dictated the slow system
response.

Basically, 10% of us did 90% of the work, because 90% of the people
there were incapable. Nothing has changed since then - have you
ever noticed that the Star Wars interceptors still don't work; after
40 years you'd think they could get it right.

Floyd

> So, you wanna work on the AWACS plane? When it was delivered
> to the AF in 1978 or so, it's computer was essentially - *AND STILL
> IS TO THIS DAY* essentially an IBM 360 using 1970 tech. If a
> computer went out the techs often went down to Radio Shack for
> a capacitor to fix it.
>
> I had a manager - this guy had a PhD in Math - that couldn't understand
> that, if a compiler (under development) could do 1+2=2, it could also
> do 2+2=4. We had other managers that believed that assembly code
> was the only way to go to make tight code - they never could believe
> that the *algorithms* and *requirements* dictated the slow system
> response.
>
> Basically, 10% of us did 90% of the work, because 90% of the people
> there were incapable. Nothing has changed since then - have you
> ever noticed that the Star Wars interceptors still don't work; after
> 40 years you'd think they could get it right.
>
> Floyd
>

But doesn't the US still have the most advanced military equipment in the
world? I don't ever remember an M1 Abrams break down - I was in desert Storm
(of course us Marines were still in the good old M60s). The war machine that
the U.S. has is really high tech. I am just quoting a letter, which put some
light on this issue. I still agree that for most part, American car industry
is doing catch up.

In article <QKQsb.11630$6c3.9998@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>
>GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
>designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
>as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
>June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
>saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
>Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
>The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
>it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
>... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
>not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
>know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
>close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
>--
>
> ~~Philip


Bigotry only belongs to someone like you. You refuse to face the fact that
Toyota is making quality automobiles and gaining market share in the U.S.
Consumer Reports surveys 600,000 auto owners. The result speaks the truth.
We need to wake up and compete, not to be ignorant like you.

Just because GM/UAW gave you some kind of "backdoor tours" (I don't wanna
know) in their plants shouldn't slant your view about GM/UAW quality. Instead
of touring the useless plants, go to your local library and read the April
issue of Consumer Reports.