Honda Car Forum

What about Toyota's UAW union shop assembly plant in California?
The current CR. list the Buick Regal as better than the Camry,
Accord or Taurus.


mike hunt



"C. E. White" wrote:
>
> HarrierAWD wrote:
>
> > Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to churn out
> > quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to crank out craps. That's
> > the fact, period. Consumer Reports annual survey is far more credible than
> > your story.
>
> I don't persoanlly but much stock in the CR survey, but they do show the Prizum to
> have an "exemplary reliability record." It is as good as any Toyota (and better
> than the Camry or Tundra for instance).
>
> Ed

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote
> "elmo" <m@vfd.com> wrote
> > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazi...8001_mz001.htm
> > An inside look at how it's reinventing the auto industry.
> >
>
> Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out, Japan
> and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
go
> work for auto manufacturers.
>
> In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.

In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.

Floyd

StonyMason@mailcity.com wrote:

> What about Toyota's UAW union shop assembly plant in California?
> The current CR. list the Buick Regal as better than the Camry,
> Accord or Taurus.

The Prizum is built in the California plant.

Ed

In article <bUKsb.9199$nz.2555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:
>You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
>exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
>such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.

Although it would make sense for an SUV to have an easy-clean interior
like the Wrangler or Element (or old SUV), as opposed to a "nice" interior
that gets dirty easily and is hard to clean.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns9431CDC01F93Fteggeratistop@66.11.168.195> ...
> "W Bittle" <wbittle1@alltel.net>, being of unsound mind, did utter in
> news:1068677919.897292@cache6.usenetserver.com:
>
> >
> It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
> to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
> noise.
This is not an accident. It's an intentional Years ago I studied
up on statistical quality control. The Japanese are the masters of
the game (yes, I know all about Deming). They are totally
Manic-Depressive. If a part DOESN'T break it is made too well and
should be cheapened up. If a part DOES break it needs to be improved.
The number of miles a car is supposed to last is a closely guarded
secret. 60K, 100K, 150K? Who knows? You want all the parts to have
the same lifetime. No use having your turn signal lever outlast your
trunk lid. They expect parts prices to go down 10% a year, or
whatever, through automation and more advanced production techniques.
They really put the fear of switching contractors in their suppliers.
These guys do not believe in waste. They make the people at
misc.consumers.frugal-living look like drunken lottery winners. They
sweat the small stuff. Productivity increases that eventually
eliminate your own job are just a fact of life. I did some of this as
an American engineer. I doubt much of this will ever go on in
American auto factories. Automation and productivity are so high that
you can have high unemployment and abundent goods and services.
Welcome to the post industrial society. Most people, by now, have
adjusted to the post agricultural society. Oops, wrong newsgroup for
that rant. Toyota works hard at delivering a good product. Nothing
wrong with that.

> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs
I absolutely agree.

Cheers,
Roadie Roger
Book of the month:
Dr. Hondalove, or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Rev's

I'm confused by the response. The Prizm is a Toyota Corolla. So
naturally it is "as good as any Toyota". Sorry if I missed the point.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:18:57 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I don't persoanlly but much stock in the CR survey, but they do show the Prizum to
>have an "exemplary reliability record." It is as good as any Toyota (and better
>than the Camry or Tundra for instance).
>
>Ed

Tegger® wrote:

>
> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
> expensive array of government mandates.


Sorry, but I disagree. ALL manufacturers are selling cars in the same
market and regulatory jungle, so you can't use that as a reason why do
what they do to quality. Price is obviously a reflection of quality, but
I dare say that dollar for dollar the US Big 3 are not delivering the
same overall quality as their foreign competitors. Look at Toyota sales!

Philip® wrote:

> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.

If you go back to my original post this is very clear.

In news:FfidnWGcU--VsS6iRVn-gw@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.

In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.

>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.

GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

I read that CR report. The author implied that had numerous other
real life ownership factors been included in the Regal evaluation
that it would NOT have surpassed Camry or Accord.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

>In news:3FB3A468.30A772BD@mailcity.com,
>StonyMason@mailcity.com <StonyMason@mailcity.com> being of bellicose
mind posted:
> What about Toyota's UAW union shop assembly plant in California?
> The current CR. list the Buick Regal as better than the Camry,
> Accord or Taurus.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> "C. E. White" wrote:
> >
> > HarrierAWD wrote:
> >
> > > Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue
> > > to churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue
> > > to crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer
> > > Reports annual survey is far more credible than your story.
> >
> > I don't persoanlly but much stock in the CR survey, but they do
> > show the Prizum to have an "exemplary reliability record." It is
> > as good as any Toyota (and better than the Camry or Tundra for
> > instance).
> >
> > Ed