Honda Car Forum

W Bittle wrote:

>>Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
>>reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.
>>
>
> There are some American vehicles that do perform well with respect to
> overall quality, but they are few. What bothers me is that Toyota is looking
> more at the profit margen. It seems every time a company starts looking more
> at that, quality takes a hit in favor of profit.


Not so, quality is what they are know for and its what is driving it to
the #2 spot. Its actually a trademark almost, Toyotas are know the world
over as being reliable.


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

Tegger® wrote:
>
> It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
> to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
> noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
> same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
> is much thicker.

But TeGG, one has to ask, did the mirror really need to be that think in
the first place? Its not liek you'd want to hook a tow strap to it or
something/ ;-)

--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

MDT Tech® <ssauer4O@repairman.com>, being of unsound mind, did utter in
news:hbDsb.11073$6c3.5978@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net:

> Tegger® wrote:
>>
>> It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring
>> happened to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully
>> thin-sounding hollow noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it
>> once more, then did the same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra.
>> The Integra's mirror housing is much thicker.
>
> But TeGG, one has to ask, did the mirror really need to be that think
> in the first place? Its not liek you'd want to hook a tow strap to it
> or something/ ;-)
>


It's not a knock against Toyota. I'd suspect the new Hondas are the same.

It's that price pressure I mentioned before. My '91 was not built to quite
the same pressures. It has no airbags, for instance, so that's $1,500 off
the build price right there. Lots of money to make mirrors thicker.

--
TeGGeR®

In article <Xns9431CDC01F93Fteggeratistop@66.11.168.195>,
teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid says...
>It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
>to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
>noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
>same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
>is much thicker.
>
>--
>TeGGeR®


To be fair, the Tercel is one of the cheapest Toyota sold in the U.S., so they
have to cut corners. The Acura/Honda Integra is an upscale Honda Civic, so I
suppose better material should be used. The Tercel could be had for about $
10K to $13K, the Integra was about $16K and up. Hardly a fair comparison.

In article <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>
>In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
>Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>> > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>> > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>> > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
>bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
>I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
>285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
>transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
>Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
>impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
>also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
>wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
>miles on the car in 14½ months.
>
>Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
>trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
>a designer.


Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford Disneyland? NUMMI
being the builder is exactly the problem. Having rear wheel bearing failed at
only 15,000 miles speaks for itself about the build quality.

Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to churn out
quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to crank out craps. That's
the fact, period. Consumer Reports annual survey is far more credible than
your story.

> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.
>
There are some American vehicles that do perform well with respect to
overall quality, but they are few. What bothers me is that Toyota is looking
more at the profit margen. It seems every time a company starts looking more
at that, quality takes a hit in favor of profit. So, you start getting the
problems. I drove a Toyota Matrix, and I can tell you this, It is not built
as well as either of my Hondas. The plastic trim on the dash and doors is
like paper and the interior in general feels cheaper. It was a nice vehicle,
but I would much rather have a Honda. The only other vehicle that came close
to a Honda was the Nissan Spec V I drove. That was a nice built and nice
driving vehicle.

Tegger® wrote:

> One easy target for cost-cutting is trim and interiors.
> 1) Interiors are not exposed to the weather
> 2) Interiors and trim are subject to only the most basic governmental
> regulation (other than air-bags)
> 3) Interiors are increasingly important to consumers as the cars themselves
> become so reliable as to become almost appliances
> 4) Interiors and trim are cheap and quick ways of altering the look and
> functionality of cars in ways that do not involve government crash-testing,
> emissions certification or other expensive compliance procedures.

You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.

HarrierAWD wrote:

> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to churn out
> quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to crank out craps. That's
> the fact, period. Consumer Reports annual survey is far more credible than
> your story.

I don't persoanlly but much stock in the CR survey, but they do show the Prizum to
have an "exemplary reliability record." It is as good as any Toyota (and better
than the Camry or Tundra for instance).

Ed

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
> exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
> such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.

And you don't think the interior in a 4Runner is a basic plasticky interior? In
my life I have had two cars where the interior plastic turned white with age -
one was an Audi, the other a Toyota. The cheap plastic in the Toyota started
cracking in less than 6 years. At least the Audi's did crack (but then I only
kept the car for three years). The plastic in my sister's Honda ('97 Civic) is
also starting to look bad and it has turned brittle in spots (like the sun visor
mount that came off in my hand).

Ed

"elmo" <m@vfd.com> wrote in message
news:Sqdsb.34987$vn.74560@sea-read.news.verio.net...
>
> http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazi...8001_mz001.htm
> An inside look at how it's reinventing the auto industry.
>

Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out, Japan
and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers go
work for auto manufacturers.

In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.