Honda Car Forum

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:29:45 -0500, "NetSock" <NetSock@nospam.com>
wrote:

>First, some credentials...I was a 12 year certified technician, and
>regularly did engine rebuilds on both gas and diesel engines. As a fleet
>manager, will also did extensive wear studies and regular in-depth oil
>analysis. While I am no longer "in the field" I still get my hands dirty
>building hi-performance engines for boats as a hobby.
>
>With that said...I will make this blanket statement...
>
>"Allowing the engine coolant to reach its maximum operating temperature at
>idle after a cold start, will extend the life of the engine."

You're cracked. How long would that take? 10 minutes? It's a
machine. Drive it.

So you are saying that a car that is overnight cold in the middle of winter
would have the exact same emissions percentages of a car that is fully
warmed up? That's just not true.

> Today's modern engines are designed to burn ALL the full at any given
> temperature range. If your modern engine is having fuel wash at ANY time,
> there is something wrong.

"Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:vqgrjup6sqjb66@corp.supernews.com...
> So you are saying that a car that is overnight cold in the middle of
winter
> would have the exact same emissions percentages of a car that is fully
> warmed up?

No...thats not what I said.

> That's just not true.
>
> > Today's modern engines are designed to burn ALL the full at any given
> > temperature range. If your modern engine is having fuel wash at ANY
time,
> > there is something wrong.


--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Very good question!

We did do some analyst on boats, and found it to make quite a difference on
wear.

"Dry run" is when your engine is turning, but oil pressure has not
stabilized. This *IS* the worst time for any piston engine. It, of course is
worse in cold weather, but we found the biggest engine killer to be...get
this...over servicing.

Ever notice that you oil light stays on an extra 3 to 6 seconds after you
change your oil? Well, that is "dry run". The engine is running, and you
have none to low oil pressure...not a good thing.

So if you were to change your oil every 2k...think about it...after 40k, you
would have over 1 to 2 minutes of running your engine with no oil pressure!

Filling your filter before installation can help, but not all filters are
mounted vertically.

Oil companies and engine manufacturers want you to change your oil every 3k.
Our oil analysis showed that we were throwing away a *LOT* of good oil on an
average commuter engine. We found that 4500-5000 miles was better serving
point in that environment.

Don't get me wrong...there ARE applications to change every 3 k, but the
average passenger car doesn't need it that often.

Back to the pre-luber...a GREAT idea...works as it should...we get a full
extra summer season out of our 425hp 460 cid jetboat, however, I cant
recommend it for low load (average commuter) car...its just not worth the
cost. Simply by changing drivers habits and servicing, its easy to get 200k
out of an engine nowadays. By that time, other aspects of the car are in
issue, but with a work horse (truck, towing, boat, hauling, hi-performance)
I would HIGHLY recommend it.

Take care.

--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:xhXpb.49169$1J4.34544@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> In article <bo89pj$a3$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
> "NetSock" <NetSock@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > With that said...I will make this blanket statement...
> >
> > "Allowing the engine coolant to reach its maximum operating temperature
at
> > idle after a cold start, will extend the life of the engine."
> >
> > Think about it...20 degree block, and your going to drive away after 30
> > seconds!? Tolerances are too tight in a cold engine for loading
> > purposes...you are "shaving" longevity away from your engine. We have
done
> > those precise studies in our fleet, and that is our findings.
>
> Netsock,
>
> Have you done any testing with regard to systems like the PreLuber?
>
> It'd be interesting to compare an engine on PreLuber and an engine that
> simply warms up to operating temperature.
>

Tom and Ray (to whom I've never heard of) seem to be good ol' boys and well
intentioned, but I didn't catch their credentials. Nor did they give any
real explanation to their methods.

Like I said, to each there own...but Ill stick with real world facts to make
my judgments.

Take care.

--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:jkXpb.49180$1J4.12589@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> In article <bo89pj$a3$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
> "NetSock" <NetSock@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > With that said...I will make this blanket statement...
> >
> > "Allowing the engine coolant to reach its maximum operating temperature
at
> > idle after a cold start, will extend the life of the engine."
>
> Oh, yeah, btw:
>
> http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Arch...anuary/01.html
>
> http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Arch...vember/18.html
>

"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
newsfqgqv0aa83nc5t0vgt613ol0aqsfqd5ou@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:29:45 -0500, "NetSock" <NetSock@nospam.com>
> wrote:

> You're cracked.

Only on Saturday nights.

> How long would that take?

It depends.

>10 minutes?

My Accord gets into the "operating" range after about 4 minutes @ 32 F.

> It's a
> machine. Drive it.

You can drive it, or drive it into the ground...which ever you prefer.

Take care.

--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

If it burning ALL the fuel at any point, the emissions would be the same at
any point. Heck, cars wouldn't even need a catalyst if they could do what
you are saying.

"NetSock" <NetSock@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:boaqk2$cb2$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> "Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:vqgrjup6sqjb66@corp.supernews.com...
> > So you are saying that a car that is overnight cold in the middle of
> winter
> > would have the exact same emissions percentages of a car that is fully
> > warmed up?
>
> No...thats not what I said.
>
> > That's just not true.
> >
> > > Today's modern engines are designed to burn ALL the full at any given
> > > temperature range. If your modern engine is having fuel wash at ANY
> time,
> > > there is something wrong.
>
>
> --
> '03 S2000
> '94 Accord
>
> It's just about going fast...that's all...
>
> http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
>
>

"Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:vqhuak13194eb9@corp.supernews.com...

> If it burning ALL the fuel at any point, the emissions would be the same
at
> any point.

No they wouldn't. RPMs are a HUGE factor.

>Heck, cars wouldn't even need a catalyst if they could do what
> you are saying.

Catalyst are designed to deal with the nitrous by products from burning fuel
(gasoline). The catalytic converter has little to do with unburnt fuel.

I will however clarify...modern engines are designed to burn 97% of the fuel
at any temperature. The remaining 3% could never result in "washing" of the
cylinders...which was my point.

In article <bo89pj$a3$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
NetSock <NetSock@nospam.com> wrote:
>First, some credentials...I was a 12 year certified technician, and
>regularly did engine rebuilds on both gas and diesel engines.
>
>With that said...I will make this blanket statement...
>
>"Allowing the engine coolant to reach its maximum operating temperature at
>idle after a cold start, will extend the life of the engine."

So how long does it take for one of those diesel engines to warm up
at idle in cold weather?

> My very own
>'94 Accord with 138k miles on it, has *always* been completely warmed up,
>and to this day, runs like its brand new.

Big deal. Lots of people have cars with more mileage and no problems
without doing any idle warm-up.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

In article <bob3qp$20t$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
remove22@sonic.net (Timothy J. Lee) wrote:

> > My very own
> >'94 Accord with 138k miles on it, has *always* been completely warmed up,
> >and to this day, runs like its brand new.
>
> Big deal. Lots of people have cars with more mileage and no problems
> without doing any idle warm-up.

In fact, my 120K mile 92 Civic, with 3K mile oil change intervals and
minimal warmup times, showed an oil analysis where the engine was in
brand-new shape. And it continues to run.