Honda Car Forum

Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
but without NAVI.

I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to climate
control /AC system.

1. Fan power control buttons.
These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down arrow
(decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase power) on the
down button. I would assume that this should be the other way around.

2. Internal circulation with Auto ON.

I have noticed that in hot day internal circ light stays for quite long (can
be an hour) if I get in the car when it hot from outside sun and Auto is
ON. Then I found a way to get rid of the circ but keeping AUTO. I increase
room temp above normal, at certain point of temperature circ light goes off,
and then I decrease temp back to normal and circ light does not come up. I
see here either a flaw in the logic or defect in the temp sensor. Otherwise
I would expect circ coming up back again when I decrease below threshold
temp. And still, internal circulation longer than 10 minutes seems to be
abnormal.

3. In A/C ON or OFF mode, I assume that I have full control over the
individual controls of the system. But when I increase/decrease temperature
level I notice that fan speed changes too even if I didn't change fan
settings. My assumption that temp and fan should be totally independent in
this scenario.

4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack of
control.

When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed, because
I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are dynamically changed
depending on outside conditions and temp settings. But as I turn off AUTO, I
assume that these dynamic values are become fixed, but I have no idea what
they are. No fan or mode display at the moment as well as AC ON or OF
indication.

There is an indirect way to find it out though. As I change any of
mentioned settings, it brings these settings to the display and only after
that they stay. I assume these settings should be on display at any time
when AUTO is off. And this indirect way has another drawback. As you bring
value to the display you change it even if you want only to check it.

I would be interested in listening opinions and experience of others,
JS

P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
computer similar to let say cell phone?

It always amazes me when people complain about modern A/C systems.
Our first three new cars didn't even have a heater!

Dick

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:23:36 -0500, "John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
>but without NAVI.
>
>I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to climate
>control /AC system.

"John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com> wrote in
news:64xpb.99454$PD3.5297541@nnrp1.uunet.ca:

> Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate
> control but without NAVI.
>
> I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to
> climate control /AC system.
>
> 1. Fan power control buttons.
> These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down
> arrow (decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase
> power) on the down button. I would assume that this should be the
> other way around.
>
> 2. Internal circulation with Auto ON.
>
> I have noticed that in hot day internal circ light stays for quite
> long (can be an hour) if I get in the car when it hot from outside
> sun and Auto is ON. Then I found a way to get rid of the circ but
> keeping AUTO. I increase room temp above normal, at certain point of
> temperature circ light goes off, and then I decrease temp back to
> normal and circ light does not come up. I see here either a flaw in
> the logic or defect in the temp sensor. Otherwise I would expect circ
> coming up back again when I decrease below threshold temp. And still,
> internal circulation longer than 10 minutes seems to be abnormal.
>
> 3. In A/C ON or OFF mode, I assume that I have full control over the
> individual controls of the system. But when I increase/decrease
> temperature level I notice that fan speed changes too even if I didn't
> change fan settings. My assumption that temp and fan should be totally
> independent in this scenario.
>
> 4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack
> of control.
>
> When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed,
> because I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are
> dynamically changed depending on outside conditions and temp settings.
> But as I turn off AUTO, I assume that these dynamic values are become
> fixed, but I have no idea what they are. No fan or mode display at the
> moment as well as AC ON or OF indication.
>
> There is an indirect way to find it out though. As I change any of
> mentioned settings, it brings these settings to the display and only
> after that they stay. I assume these settings should be on display at
> any time when AUTO is off. And this indirect way has another drawback.
> As you bring value to the display you change it even if you want only
> to check it.
>
> I would be interested in listening opinions and experience of others,
> JS
>
> P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
> computer similar to let say cell phone?
>
>
>
If you push the A/C button (2nd from top on right) the NAV dispolay
changes to climate control and all your settings are there. Just as
described in the owner's manual.

John Smith <some1@microsoft.com> wrote:

> P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
> computer similar to let say cell phone?

The Insight had a firmware upgrade to adjust the displayed fuel mileage to
be more in line with reality.

(My HP620 camera had a firmware upgrade to allow proper operation with
256MB SD chip... download to the camera as a USB disk drive, and then
reboot... a camera!!)

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:56:08 -0600, Paul Cardoza
<paulcardoza@comcast.net> wrote:

>"John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com> wrote in
>news:64xpb.99454$PD3.5297541@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
>
>> Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate
>> control but without NAVI.
>>

>If you push the A/C button (2nd from top on right) the NAV dispolay
>changes to climate control and all your settings are there. Just as
>described in the owner's manual.

He clearly said "without NAVI"...

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:23:36 -0500, "John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
>but without NAVI.
>
>I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to climate
>control /AC system.
>
>1. Fan power control buttons.
>These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down arrow
>(decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase power) on the
>down button. I would assume that this should be the other way around.
>

I guess... I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. I think
this mimics how other similar controls (volume on a stereo) are
usually set... press left to decrease, right to increase. They don't
take the upper/lower button thing into consideration... they just
engineered the controls as if they were in a straight line.

>2. Internal circulation with Auto ON.
>
>I have noticed that in hot day internal circ light stays for quite long (can
>be an hour) if I get in the car when it hot from outside sun and Auto is
>ON. Then I found a way to get rid of the circ but keeping AUTO. I increase
>room temp above normal, at certain point of temperature circ light goes off,
>and then I decrease temp back to normal and circ light does not come up. I
>see here either a flaw in the logic or defect in the temp sensor. Otherwise
>I would expect circ coming up back again when I decrease below threshold
>temp. And still, internal circulation longer than 10 minutes seems to be
>abnormal.
>

Agreed... it does stay on longer than my 2000 EX (also with automatic
climate control). But I just let it work automatically and it doesn't
seem to be an issue.

>3. In A/C ON or OFF mode, I assume that I have full control over the
>individual controls of the system. But when I increase/decrease temperature
>level I notice that fan speed changes too even if I didn't change fan
>settings. My assumption that temp and fan should be totally independent in
>this scenario.
>
>4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack of
>control.
>
>When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed, because
>I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are dynamically changed
>depending on outside conditions and temp settings. But as I turn off AUTO, I
>assume that these dynamic values are become fixed, but I have no idea what
>they are. No fan or mode display at the moment as well as AC ON or OF
>indication.
>

In answer to 3 and 4, I believe that the system retains automatic
control over all functions until you override them with specific
manual controls. So in 3, for example, if you haven't manually set a
fan speed, the system still controls it automatically.

The advantage of this approach is that the system continues to control
functions that you haven't "overridden". Last weekend, we had a lot
of rain in my area, so I needed to use defog. When I manually set the
mode, the system still controlled the temperature and fan speed, with
the result being comfortably controlled temperature and clear windows.

So that's why the system doesn't immediately display all settings when
you turn off auto. Each automatically controlled function reverts to
manual only when you explicitly take control of it by setting it. I'm
pretty sure this is how it works, but I'm no expert, so I may be
wrong.

>There is an indirect way to find it out though. As I change any of
>mentioned settings, it brings these settings to the display and only after
>that they stay. I assume these settings should be on display at any time
>when AUTO is off. And this indirect way has another drawback. As you bring
>value to the display you change it even if you want only to check it.
>
>I would be interested in listening opinions and experience of others,
>JS
>
>P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
>computer similar to let say cell phone?
>
>

dbrebel said for all posterity...
> "John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
> >but without NAVI.
> >
> >I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to climate
> >control /AC system.
> >
> >1. Fan power control buttons.
> >These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down arrow
> >(decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase power) on the
> >down button. I would assume that this should be the other way around.
> >
>
> I guess... I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. I think
> this mimics how other similar controls (volume on a stereo) are
> usually set... press left to decrease, right to increase. They don't
> take the upper/lower button thing into consideration... they just
> engineered the controls as if they were in a straight line.

Funny... I never noticed it either. I always just look at the
arrows on the buttons.


Casey

"John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:64xpb.99454
> 4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack of
> control.
>
> When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed,
because
> I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are dynamically changed
> depending on outside conditions and temp settings. But as I turn off AUTO,
I
> assume that these dynamic values are become fixed, but I have no idea what
> they are. No fan or mode display at the moment as well as AC ON or OF
> indication.

Probably designed by the same engineering bozos who left out the radio
station display. When you're changing stations, it displays the radio
station, but once the it displays the clock, there's no button to display
the radio station again. (well, you can push the bass/treble/bal/fade button
5 times, but that's a pretty dumb workaround).

dbrebell,
these are quite plausible statements, but it's hard to imagine how climate
control would work if some (one or more) parameters overridden ? e.g. how
anything would function if fan speed is fixed at nearly 0 ?

by the way, i have the same car, and i am confused with mode "auto" itself.
when I turn the car on i have only temp values displayed, neither "auto"
indicator is displayed nor "ac on/off","mode","fan". based on your idea it's
already auto mode because no overridden values are on. now, when i press
button "auto" indicator "auto" is displayed, so it means I have overridden
what ....."auto" i had by default ????

Dave

"dbrebel" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:v64fqv4puvjpi7l1j9lk75bd4nonpa95es@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:23:36 -0500, "John Smith" <some1@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
> >but without NAVI.
> >
> >I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to
climate
> >control /AC system.
> >
> >1. Fan power control buttons.
> >These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down
arrow
> >(decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase power) on the
> >down button. I would assume that this should be the other way around.
> >
>
> I guess... I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. I think
> this mimics how other similar controls (volume on a stereo) are
> usually set... press left to decrease, right to increase. They don't
> take the upper/lower button thing into consideration... they just
> engineered the controls as if they were in a straight line.
>
> >2. Internal circulation with Auto ON.
> >
> >I have noticed that in hot day internal circ light stays for quite long
(can
> >be an hour) if I get in the car when it hot from outside sun and Auto
is
> >ON. Then I found a way to get rid of the circ but keeping AUTO. I
increase
> >room temp above normal, at certain point of temperature circ light goes
off,
> >and then I decrease temp back to normal and circ light does not come up.
I
> >see here either a flaw in the logic or defect in the temp sensor.
Otherwise
> >I would expect circ coming up back again when I decrease below threshold
> >temp. And still, internal circulation longer than 10 minutes seems to be
> >abnormal.
> >
>
> Agreed... it does stay on longer than my 2000 EX (also with automatic
> climate control). But I just let it work automatically and it doesn't
> seem to be an issue.
>
> >3. In A/C ON or OFF mode, I assume that I have full control over the
> >individual controls of the system. But when I increase/decrease
temperature
> >level I notice that fan speed changes too even if I didn't change fan
> >settings. My assumption that temp and fan should be totally independent
in
> >this scenario.
> >
> >4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack of
> >control.
> >
> >When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed,
because
> >I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are dynamically changed
> >depending on outside conditions and temp settings. But as I turn off
AUTO, I
> >assume that these dynamic values are become fixed, but I have no idea
what
> >they are. No fan or mode display at the moment as well as AC ON or OF
> >indication.
> >
>
> In answer to 3 and 4, I believe that the system retains automatic
> control over all functions until you override them with specific
> manual controls. So in 3, for example, if you haven't manually set a
> fan speed, the system still controls it automatically.
>
> The advantage of this approach is that the system continues to control
> functions that you haven't "overridden". Last weekend, we had a lot
> of rain in my area, so I needed to use defog. When I manually set the
> mode, the system still controlled the temperature and fan speed, with
> the result being comfortably controlled temperature and clear windows.
>
> So that's why the system doesn't immediately display all settings when
> you turn off auto. Each automatically controlled function reverts to
> manual only when you explicitly take control of it by setting it. I'm
> pretty sure this is how it works, but I'm no expert, so I may be
> wrong.
>
> >There is an indirect way to find it out though. As I change any of
> >mentioned settings, it brings these settings to the display and only
after
> >that they stay. I assume these settings should be on display at any time
> >when AUTO is off. And this indirect way has another drawback. As you
bring
> >value to the display you change it even if you want only to check it.
> >
> >I would be interested in listening opinions and experience of others,
> >JS
> >
> >P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
> >computer similar to let say cell phone?
> >
> >
>

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:58:35 -0500, "Dave Breda" <daveb@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>dbrebell,
>these are quite plausible statements, but it's hard to imagine how climate
>control would work if some (one or more) parameters overridden ? e.g. how
>anything would function if fan speed is fixed at nearly 0 ?
>

Well, that's how it works... if you set the fan speed at nearly 0,
it's not going to do a very good job of climate control, but it'll do
what it can based on what you've set. Honda has to design the system
to work in semi-automatic mode regardless of how you manually override
some setting, and they can't save you from yourself if you use the
system in an illogical manner.

Based on how the system operates on automatic, I doubt that many
people would use the fan control to turn the fan speed down, since it
goes WAY down all by itself. It's more likely that they'd turn the
fan speed up, particularly if they're trying to clear very foggy
windows or keep the windshield clear of snow or ice.

>by the way, i have the same car, and i am confused with mode "auto" itself.
>when I turn the car on i have only temp values displayed, neither "auto"
>indicator is displayed nor "ac on/off","mode","fan". based on your idea it's
>already auto mode because no overridden values are on. now, when i press
>button "auto" indicator "auto" is displayed, so it means I have overridden
>what ....."auto" i had by default ????
>

Don't know what you did... mine always starts up in auto unless I've
overridden something. Without watching you work the unit, it's
impossible to guess what you've done. The things that you override
are fan speed, mode and a/c on/off, and all display the set value when
you do.

What happens if you make sure that auto is on before you turn the car
off? How is the system set when you start the car again?