Honda Car Forum

As the subject says, my 95 Accord won't start. It's not the obvious things:
1. PGM-FI Main relay test is OK
2. Fuel pump whirls for 2 seconds when key is turned to "On"
3. Engine turns over as normal when key is turned to "Start"
4. Sparks are issued to all four cylinders
5. Test of ignition coil primary and secondary resistance is
within range.
6. Injector resistors are within range.

The engine turns over, but just doesn't have the sound and feel of
pistons firing.

I've tested everything I can according to the flow charts in the Honda Service
manual except the ECM (which requires ~850.00 for the test harness). A new
ECM would cost ~750.00.

What I wonder though, is when I put the key in the "ON" position, my engine
"CHECK" light comes on for 2 seconds and then turns off (as always). The Honda
service manual indicates this as "Everything normal with the ECM". I don't
think anything should be wrong with the ECM because of the lack of engine
"CHECK" light staying on. Am I right?

Does anyone have any idea of what else I could look at? One thing that is odd,
is that "D4" lights at the same time (and for the same duration) as
engine "CHECK" light.

Thanks in advance,
Daniel
--
Daniel S. Schudel
dan@ddktech.com

On 11/1/03 1:43 PM, in article bo12bd$ns5$1@server.dan.net, "Daniel Schudel"
<dan@blakntan.dan.net> wrote:

>
> As the subject says, my 95 Accord won't start. It's not the obvious things:
> 1. PGM-FI Main relay test is OK
> 2. Fuel pump whirls for 2 seconds when key is turned to "On"
> 3. Engine turns over as normal when key is turned to "Start"
> 4. Sparks are issued to all four cylinders
> 5. Test of ignition coil primary and secondary resistance is
> within range.
> 6. Injector resistors are within range.
>
> The engine turns over, but just doesn't have the sound and feel of
> pistons firing.
>
> I've tested everything I can according to the flow charts in the Honda Service
> manual except the ECM (which requires ~850.00 for the test harness). A new
> ECM would cost ~750.00.
>
> What I wonder though, is when I put the key in the "ON" position, my engine
> "CHECK" light comes on for 2 seconds and then turns off (as always). The
> Honda
> service manual indicates this as "Everything normal with the ECM". I don't
> think anything should be wrong with the ECM because of the lack of engine
> "CHECK" light staying on. Am I right?
>

That sounds like the normal self tests with the lights that happens every
time you start the engine.


> Does anyone have any idea of what else I could look at? One thing that is
> odd,
> is that "D4" lights at the same time (and for the same duration) as
> engine "CHECK" light.
>

The D4 light doubles as the transmission fault light on Hondas. If it
starts flashing it indicates a problem in the transmission electronics.

There was a rash of ignition switch failures in '95 and later Hondas. Some
were recalled for it. This is the switch screwed to the back of the
ignition key cylinder. You might check that. If it is the problem, they
are cheap (about $35) and easy to change.

> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel

E. Meyer <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote:
> On 11/1/03 1:43 PM, in article bo12bd$ns5$1@server.dan.net, "Daniel Schudel"
> <dan@blakntan.dan.net> wrote:

> There was a rash of ignition switch failures in '95 and later Hondas. Some
> were recalled for it. This is the switch screwed to the back of the
> ignition key cylinder. You might check that. If it is the problem, they
> are cheap (about $35) and easy to change.

That is what started it all. The car wouldn't start on Tuesday, so I took the
switch completely apart and cleaned it up. Put it back together and the car
ran fine for 1 day. Then it stopped starting (different symptoms than before), so
I replaced the switch with a brand new one (cost me $50.00). Still won't
start (though the symptoms are different from the switch failure symptom).

When the switch wasn't working right, I can feel the engine gain power as I hold
the key in the "Start" position, then shut off when I move the key to the "Run"
position.

Now with the brand new switch in there (and even when the "refurbished" old switch
was in there), the engine turns over, but it just doesn't feel (or sound) like
the engine is firing up.

Daniel
--
Daniel S. Schudel
dan@ddktech.com

You should verify fuel delivery beyond a whirring pump. Does the exhaust
smell like gas when you crank the engine? Can you check fuel pressure? Hear
a clicking from the injectors? A calibrated spark tester (KD tools) will
test spark strength; can you check static timing? Or do you have a timing
light? Compression test? Valves opening and closing properly? Surely there
are more troubleshooting steps before condemning the ECU.

Daniel Schudel <dan@blakntan.dan.net> decided to join the conversation
on 01 Nov 2003 with message news:bo12bd$ns5$1@server.dan.net:

> I've tested everything I can according to the flow charts in the Honda
> Service manual except the ECM (which requires ~850.00 for the test
> harness). A new ECM would cost ~750.00.

My wife's car needed a new ECU .. We bought a rebuilt one for about ~$300
...

If it turns out to be the ECU, check out this website:

http://www.foreignecurepair.com/hondaecm.asp



--
-Chris

http://www.ChrisGarcia.com <- My Homepage
http://www.chrisgarcia.com/cars/ <- *NEW* My cars
http://www.chrisgarcia.com/dogs/ <- *Sort-of NEW* My dogs
http://starwars.chrisgarcia.com/ <- Centerpoint Station, the "ghost-
town" of the Star Wars Universe!

Daniel Schudel wrote:
>
> As the subject says, my 95 Accord won't start. It's not the obvious things:
> 1. PGM-FI Main relay test is OK
> 2. Fuel pump whirls for 2 seconds when key is turned to "On"
> 3. Engine turns over as normal when key is turned to "Start"
> 4. Sparks are issued to all four cylinders
> 5. Test of ignition coil primary and secondary resistance is
> within range.
> 6. Injector resistors are within range.
>
> The engine turns over, but just doesn't have the sound and feel of
> pistons firing.
>
> I've tested everything I can according to the flow charts in the Honda Service
> manual except the ECM (which requires ~850.00 for the test harness). A new
> ECM would cost ~750.00.
>
> What I wonder though, is when I put the key in the "ON" position, my engine
> "CHECK" light comes on for 2 seconds and then turns off (as always). The Honda
> service manual indicates this as "Everything normal with the ECM". I don't
> think anything should be wrong with the ECM because of the lack of engine
> "CHECK" light staying on. Am I right?
>
> Does anyone have any idea of what else I could look at? One thing that is odd,
> is that "D4" lights at the same time (and for the same duration) as
> engine "CHECK" light.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel S. Schudel
> dan@ddktech.com

------------------------
Dan,

You said this is a two-part problem. Maybe your new symptom is a broken
timing belt? Quickest way to check is to see if the rotor in the
distributor is turning while cranking engine (you might even want to do
it by hand for fear of valve / piston collision.

I don't see your mileage mentioned, but you're due for a new one just
because of the age anyway...

'Curly'
-----------------------

Thanks for all the info from all. I went through testing a few more
parts and sensors (TP, MAP, EGR, Ignition Coil, and others). After
playing around with all that, I restarted the engine and she cranked up.
Although it took a good *30* seconds (after I let the key go to the "RUN"
position from "START") of puttering/sputtering/vibrating to make her way
up to a good idle RPM. Perhaps there was a connection a bit loose or a
bit dirty that was fixed when I was checking all the components.

I am a bit disturbed by the way my car sounded and felt when it started
that first time. But, at least each start now is normal (just as before
the ignition switch problem started).

Daniel
--
Daniel S. Schudel
dan@ddktech.com