Honda Car Forum

In rec.autos.makers.honda Gordon Burditt <gordon@gerbil.hammy.lonestar.org> wrote:

> I have heard rumors that some cars actually light the General Car
> Fault (aka "check engine") light due only to the passage of time
> and/or mileage and the failure to reset it (which only the dealer
> knows how to do). Thus you'd get a General Car Fault for "time for
> an oil change" or "time for a tuneup" or "time for a warranty
> renewal" even though a non-dealer mechanic just did one. Does
> anyone know if this actually happens? With which cars?

This happened to me in a U-Haul Ford F-250 once. Scared the heck out of me,
as I was towing a trailer up the Grape Vine in California when it happened.
When I pulled over and used a call box, the CHP called U-Haul and informed me
that the light just indicated that it was time for scheduled servicing.

Of course, they could've been lying to me... I have no idea.

--
-Joshua Belsky
jjbelsky@yahoo.com
http://belsky.net

"Joshua J. Belsky" <belsky@brionne.cyberverse.com> wrote in message
news:vootkbqpp8cga4@corp.supernews.com...
> In rec.autos.makers.honda Gordon Burditt
<gordon@gerbil.hammy.lonestar.org> wrote:
>
> > I have heard rumors that some cars actually light the General Car
> > Fault (aka "check engine") light due only to the passage of time
> > and/or mileage and the failure to reset it (which only the dealer
> > knows how to do). Thus you'd get a General Car Fault for "time for
> > an oil change" or "time for a tuneup" or "time for a warranty
> > renewal" even though a non-dealer mechanic just did one. Does
> > anyone know if this actually happens? With which cars?
>
> This happened to me in a U-Haul Ford F-250 once. Scared the heck out of
me,
> as I was towing a trailer up the Grape Vine in California when it
happened.
> When I pulled over and used a call box, the CHP called U-Haul and
informed me
> that the light just indicated that it was time for scheduled servicing.
>
> Of course, they could've been lying to me... I have no idea.
>
> --
> -Joshua Belsky
> jjbelsky@yahoo.com
> http://belsky.net
>
The problem with this "check engine light" is that they use it for
everything from
a potential serious problem were driving your car may cause serious damage,
to
a scheduled service, to the gas cap not being on tight. The problem is that
you don't
know what it is and the dealer charges 60-80 dollars to tell you what it is
and reset the light!. How hard could it be to provide the code, or at least
a different
light for maintenance, non serious and serious problems.

-Tom

TomH wrote:

>
> The problem with this "check engine light" is that they use it for
> everything from
> a potential serious problem were driving your car may cause serious damage,
> to
> a scheduled service, to the gas cap not being on tight. The problem is that
> you don't
> know what it is and the dealer charges 60-80 dollars to tell you what it is
> and reset the light!. How hard could it be to provide the code, or at least
> a different
> light for maintenance, non serious and serious problems.

The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) is not used as a service reminder. YOu
may have a second light for this. If the MIL comes on steady, it is a
non-critical problem that requires attention "soon." If the light flashes, the
problem is critical and needs immeadiate attention. Driving the car with a
flashing MIL can lead to further damage.

See http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/obd/f02016.pdf

Regards,

Ed White

In article <voqs4d2b067c5b@corp.supernews.com>,
"TomH" <tlhumm@Nospamotmail.com> wrote:

> The problem with this "check engine light" is that they use it for
> everything from
> a potential serious problem were driving your car may cause serious damage,
> to
> a scheduled service, to the gas cap not being on tight. The problem is that
> you don't
> know what it is and the dealer charges 60-80 dollars to tell you what it is
> and reset the light!. How hard could it be to provide the code, or at least
> a different
> light for maintenance, non serious and serious problems.
>
> -Tom

Hogwash.
Warning lights that indicate a serious problem are and have
always been red in color (generator, alternator, oil
pressure, brake warning, coolant temperature, etc.).

Warning lights that warn of system failures that are not
serious "fix it now" problems such as;
Check Engine, Service Engine Soon and Power Loss lights have
always been colored amber.

Emissions, Maintanance Required and Oxygen Sensor lights
(those that indicate at a pre-programmed mileage interval,
have always been colored amber.

ABS warning lights are colored amber.

By federal law, since 1996, Check Engine and/or Service
Engine Soon lights (amber) illuminate steady if a non
catalyst-damaging fault is detected, they flash if a
catalyst damaging fault is detected
i.e., loose gas cap= steady light,
missfire detected= flashing light.

A serious problem light (red) may have its functions
combined,
i.e., coolant and oil pressure as Ford Motor Company did in
the early-mid 80s, but functions between a serious problem
light (red) and a not serious problem light (amber)
would/have never be combined in one warning light.

This top secret information -is- and has always been
available in the vehicle owners manual.
(as are the instructions to fully tighten your gas cap)

For the Kindergarten drop outs, red means STOP.
Amber means proceed with caution. (get it checked ASAP)

As for the $60-$80 per hour charged to tell you what it is
and reset the light; you can always shell out the
$2000-$5000 for the proper tool and do it yourself.
(free country and all that)

"Neil Nelson" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-257107.20572915102003@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com.. .
> In article <voqs4d2b067c5b@corp.supernews.com>,
> "TomH" <tlhumm@Nospamotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The problem with this "check engine light" is that they use it for
> > everything from
> > a potential serious problem were driving your car may cause serious
damage,
> > to
> > a scheduled service, to the gas cap not being on tight. The problem is
that
> > you don't
> > know what it is and the dealer charges 60-80 dollars to tell you what
it is
> > and reset the light!. How hard could it be to provide the code, or at
least
> > a different
> > light for maintenance, non serious and serious problems.
> >
> > -Tom
>
> Hogwash.
> Warning lights that indicate a serious problem are and have
> always been red in color (generator, alternator, oil
> pressure, brake warning, coolant temperature, etc.).
>
> Warning lights that warn of system failures that are not
> serious "fix it now" problems such as;
> Check Engine, Service Engine Soon and Power Loss lights have
> always been colored amber.
>
> Emissions, Maintanance Required and Oxygen Sensor lights
> (those that indicate at a pre-programmed mileage interval,
> have always been colored amber.
>
> ABS warning lights are colored amber.
>
> By federal law, since 1996, Check Engine and/or Service
> Engine Soon lights (amber) illuminate steady if a non
> catalyst-damaging fault is detected, they flash if a
> catalyst damaging fault is detected
> i.e., loose gas cap= steady light,
> missfire detected= flashing light.
>
> A serious problem light (red) may have its functions
> combined,
> i.e., coolant and oil pressure as Ford Motor Company did in
> the early-mid 80s, but functions between a serious problem
> light (red) and a not serious problem light (amber)
> would/have never be combined in one warning light.
>
> This top secret information -is- and has always been
> available in the vehicle owners manual.
> (as are the instructions to fully tighten your gas cap)
>
> For the Kindergarten drop outs, red means STOP.
> Amber means proceed with caution. (get it checked ASAP)
>
> As for the $60-$80 per hour charged to tell you what it is
> and reset the light; you can always shell out the
> $2000-$5000 for the proper tool and do it yourself.
> (free country and all that)

My 2000 Toyota had a misfire (as diagnosed by the dealer)
and the light was steady and did not flash. My other car it
came on steady at 80K because of a scheduled emission
maintenance check. It also came on due to the gas cap
allegedly being loose (it wasn't). The misfire was covered
under warranty, the gas cap wasn't. I knew that the gas
cap could have caused the light to go on so I checked it and
it was tight. Cost me $60.00 to find this out. All these
cases caused the same light to come on and if not covered
by warrantee, it will cost you $60.00 to find out what it
is. A better indicator will save the consumer time and money.
As for the "Kindergarten drop out" reference, you should
have learned in kindergarten or at least in your Auto tech
school to be more polite to people. I'm sure you wouldn't
talk that way to my face. Funny how being anonymous
on the net brings out the true asshole in people.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:05:57 -0700, "TomH" <tlhumm@Nospamotmail.com>
wrote:

>it was tight. Cost me $60.00 to find this out. All these

Costs a paper clip to find the codes on a Nissan, Short two terminals
(the right two!) on the consult connector and the MIL light flashes
the codes. Older ones you have to pull the ECU out of it's hiding
place. Leds on the ECU flash the code when a screw is turned or two
terminals on the engine check connector are shorted.

Then you do a google for Nissan check codes or something similar to
find out what it means. Then you take it to the dealer to get it
fixed cos some of 4 digit codes read like gobbledy gook.

Same sort of thing can be done on Toyotas using an analog voltmeter on
two pins of the diagnostic connector and shorting two others with a
paper clip.

If you can't find the instructions and codes on the internet chances
are you are not up to doing much with the check codes when you get
them.

--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

"C. E. White" wrote:
>
> TomH wrote:
>
> > The problem with this "check engine light" is that they use it for
> > everything from
> > a potential serious problem were driving your car may cause serious damage,
> > to
> > a scheduled service, to the gas cap not being on tight. The problem is that
> > you don't
> > know what it is and the dealer charges 60-80 dollars to tell you what it is
> > and reset the light!. How hard could it be to provide the code, or at least
> > a different
> > light for maintenance, non serious and serious problems.

Don't most cars have some sort of code that you can coax out by proper
button-pushing and then look up in a book?

> The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) is not used as a service reminder. YOu
> may have a second light for this. If the MIL comes on steady, it is a
> non-critical problem that requires attention "soon." If the light flashes, the
> problem is critical and needs immeadiate attention. Driving the car with a
> flashing MIL can lead to further damage.
>
> See http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/obd/f02016.pdf

I lost faith in idiot lights when one came on a full 30 seconds after I
saw the steam and the engine shut down.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== =======================
If you are going to try cross-country skiing, start with a small
country.

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F8D8B02.26E8A70C@mindspring.com...
> The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) is not used as a service reminder.
YOu
> may have a second light for this. If the MIL comes on steady, it is a
> non-critical problem that requires attention "soon." If the light flashes,
the
> problem is critical and needs immeadiate attention. Driving the car with a
> flashing MIL can lead to further damage.

Um, that's incorrect, BMW's do it for a service reminder,
and my fathers honda did it at 90k miles.. it was discovered on reading the
owners manual, it does this at 90k miles for some important maintenence
stage.

In article <vot9e69ddg610c@corp.supernews.com>,
"TomH" <tlhumm@Nospamotmail.com> wrote:


> My 2000 Toyota had a misfire (as diagnosed by the dealer)
> and the light was steady and did not flash.

Because it wasn't missfiring bad enough to cause damage to
the catalytic convertor.

> My other car it
> came on steady at 80K because of a scheduled emission
> maintenance check. It also came on due to the gas cap
> allegedly being loose (it wasn't).

i find this very hard to believe.
Here's why; if it had evap monitoring, it had to be OBD2.
If it was OBD2 there is no way that there was any form of
scheduled maintanance associated with illuminating the CE
light. Sorry but the EPA regulations/SAE standards are
written to prohibit such things.

> The misfire was covered
> under warranty, the gas cap wasn't. I knew that the gas
> cap could have caused the light to go on so I checked it and
> it was tight. Cost me $60.00 to find this out.

Cost you $60 to find out that the gas cap was tight?

> All these
> cases caused the same light to come on and if not covered
> by warrantee, it will cost you $60.00 to find out what it
> is.

Oh, I dunno... Some shop labor rates are $80 an hour so
it's quite likely that it will cost you $80+ to find out.
Bottom line is, it's foolish to blame the repair facility
for that which the government is shoving down everyones
throat. Or perhaps you've discovered a method for bussiness
to stay viable while giving things away for free or at a
loss?

> A better indicator will save the consumer time and money.

Ford has models (for example) that do have a loose gas cap
warning light. Guess what, people still don't read their
owners manual and they still pay $$$ to find out why the
light is illuminated?

> As for the "Kindergarten drop out" reference, you should
> have learned in kindergarten or at least in your Auto tech
> school to be more polite to people.

Actually, I -was- being polite.
I also gave good valid information that apparently you
weren't aware of.

> I'm sure you wouldn't
> talk that way to my face. Funny how being anonymous
> on the net brings out the true asshole in people.

I use my real name and I'm in the phone book, so how am I
being anonymous?
And yes, I'd talk that way to your face.
(someone has to point out the stupid people)

In article <3F8F5E17.87690CD1@myrealbox.com>,
The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote:


> Don't most cars have some sort of code that you can coax out by proper
> button-pushing and then look up in a book?

Not exactly.
Pre OBD2 GM vehicles would reveal their trouble codes by
jumpering two terminals in the diagnostic connector.

Pre OBD2 Ford vehicles were similar as far as jumpering a
connector, but the procedure is/was slightly more
complicated and on earlier versions, you needed to connect
your own bulb or voltmeter into the circuit to see the codes
displayed (flashes or meter needle sweeps)
Pre OBD2 Chrysler vehicles would reveal their codes merely
by cycling the ignition to on three times with-in five
seconds, Chrysler OBD2 vehicles -may- reveal codes via this
method (depends on exact model year) but they'll only give
an abbreviated version of all possible trouble codes.
per OBD2 Imports can be anything from jumpering to sliding a
rocker switch to needing the factory diagnostic tool.

While there are/may be exceptions (see Chrysler) OBD2
vehicles are best considered done with a scan tool.

> I lost faith in idiot lights when one came on a full 30 seconds after I
> saw the steam and the engine shut down.

Happens...