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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 01:35 am
dold@96.usenet.us.com
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Default Civic lug studs

143,000 miles on my 2003 Civic.
Time to replace the original front brake pads.

Unfortunately, the gorillas that put tires on at 140,000 seem to have
ruined one of my lug studs. I think they torqued the wheel into place,
tightening one lug, and then overstressed it tightening the others. I
twisted the bolt off with a standard x-wrench.

I don't see how to get the stud out of the rotor. It looks like two bolts
toward the front of the car to take the rotor assembly loose from the
strut, and one large nut in the center of the wheel, but it doesn't look
like it as as simple as I want it to be.

The shop manual doesn't cover removing the disk rotor or lug studs.

Is this a job for a simple mechanic, or do I need to take it in somewhere?

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 02:18 am
dold@96.usenet.us.com
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
> I don't see how to get the stud out of the rotor. It looks like two bolts


I looked at some Youtube videos, and they all make it sound as easy as I
wanted it to be. But, I don't see where the studs are supposed to pass out
the back side. It looks like I have solid metal behind where the studs
would come out.

I replaced a stud long ago, I think a 67 Datsun, and there was a cutout in
the spindle are that allowed a stud to be driven out in that one spot. I
don't see anything like that on the Honda.

A couple of the videos and pages mention grinding a flat spot on the new
stud so it can pass by the wheel bearing, instead of removing the bearing,
but they don't mention how the old stud is supposed to clear that same
bearing.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 08:13 am
Tegger
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote in news:js8vre$7gj$1@blue-new.rahul.net:

> dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
>> I don't see how to get the stud out of the rotor. It looks like two
>> bolts

>
> I looked at some Youtube videos, and they all make it sound as easy as
> I wanted it to be. But, I don't see where the studs are supposed to
> pass out the back side. It looks like I have solid metal behind where
> the studs would come out.
>
> I replaced a stud long ago, I think a 67 Datsun, and there was a
> cutout in the spindle are that allowed a stud to be driven out in that
> one spot. I don't see anything like that on the Honda.
>
> A couple of the videos and pages mention grinding a flat spot on the
> new stud so it can pass by the wheel bearing, instead of removing the
> bearing, but they don't mention how the old stud is supposed to clear
> that same bearing.
>



Grinding the flat is not so the stud can clear the bearing, but so it can
clear the /steering knuckle/. The bearing is wholly contained within the
center portion of the hub.

The brake rotor is mounted to a large round plate called a "hub". The studs
are pressed into the hub, and pass through the rotor. You need to take the
rotor off the hub before you can remove the studs from the hub. Behind the
hub there will be an inch or so of air-space before the steering knuckle
and splash shield. That's where the old and new studs will pass.

Can you link to the videos you saw? It may help in explaining the
specifics.

--
Tegger
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 10:10 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

On 06/24/2012 11:18 PM, dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
> dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
>> I don't see how to get the stud out of the rotor. It looks like two bolts

>
> I looked at some Youtube videos, and they all make it sound as easy as I
> wanted it to be. But, I don't see where the studs are supposed to pass out
> the back side. It looks like I have solid metal behind where the studs
> would come out.
>
> I replaced a stud long ago, I think a 67 Datsun, and there was a cutout in
> the spindle are that allowed a stud to be driven out in that one spot. I
> don't see anything like that on the Honda.
>
> A couple of the videos and pages mention grinding a flat spot on the new
> stud so it can pass by the wheel bearing, instead of removing the bearing,
> but they don't mention how the old stud is supposed to clear that same
> bearing.


i haven't done this job on a 2003, but on other civics, you just remove
the brake caliper, then the brake disk, and that gives you enough room
to press the stud out.

it's very important to press it out, not hammer it - hammering brinell's
the bearings. you can usually rent a press from your local flaps, or
you can make one from a socket and a c-clamp. the former is a much
easier option.

if reinsertion requires a little grinding of a new [full length] stud
head, it's not going to be a safety issue as long as you don't take it
so far you hit the radius of where the head mushrooms out. obviously,
the less you can remove the better.


--
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 01:07 pm
dold@96.usenet.us.com
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> Can you link to the videos you saw? It may help in explaining the specifics.


The cleanest one about the "grinding" thing was the stupidest one.
A lot of nose sniffing, which I suppose is at the end of the project in an
unheated garage, with a "driver's side" on the right, suggesting it might
be in a colder climate than mine.
It was a video look around his shop at the end, not a work in progress.


Other videos seemed generic, and I have done this, generically, long ago.
It just seems there are more pieces on the back side of this rotor/hub
than I remember, that might prevent driving the stud out the back.

I see mention on another page about the grinding. It isn't stated exactly,
but now I infer that the broken stud clears everything on the way out, and
you grind the flat because the longer new stud doesn't clear.

My $10 impact driver seems to have grown feet, so I couldn't loosen the
rotor screws. I'll have to take another look around, or maybe have my son
whack a screwdriver with a hammer while I'm twisting it. I don't want to
bugger the Phillips screw, though.

One page pointed out the little trick of using the brake hose bracket
screws as the back-out screws to force the rotor off the hub. I discovered
that for myself while checking the rear brakes. My Mazda had lug bolts,
and the back-out holes in the drums were threaded for the lug bolts.
As I sat there thinking about that, and wondering where I was going to find
the right size bolts, I noticed the bolts on the brake line bracket.

Front pads at 143,000 miles, 0.06", at the specified wear limit.
Rear shoes: 0.16", service limit 0.08"
I must need to drive faster.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 01:16 pm
dold@96.usenet.us.com
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> it's very important to press it out, not hammer it - hammering brinell's
> the bearings. you can usually rent a press from your local flaps, or
> you can make one from a socket and a c-clamp. the former is a much
> easier option.


hammering doesn't seem like a very bright idea, but some videos show it.
I have some healthy C-clamps and an assortment of sockets, if I have room
to work between the hub and the splash shield, and the other parts that
seem to be in the way. I might even have a combination press/wheel puller
thing-a-ma-bob that's as old as I am, lying around somewhere.

Probably in the same cabinet with my 40 year old impact driver.

> if reinsertion requires a little grinding of a new [full length] stud


I think it is the angle with the broken stud verses the new longer stud
that makes the difference. Other comments suggest that you could bang it
into place, at risk of the threads. And several videos and picture posts
show some bar resting against the other studs to keep the hub from turning.
I wouldn't do that for fear of flattening those threads. I might use a
wooden handled sledge hammer.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 06:16 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Civic lug studs

dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote in news:jsa6cj$mjt$2@blue-new.rahul.net:

>
> hammering doesn't seem like a very bright idea,



Hammering works just fine; thje pros do it all the time. Imagine the
pounding the wheel bearing takes in everyday use; you're unlikely to exceed
that as you remove the old stud. The stud is on there with less force than
you might think.


>
> I think it is the angle with the broken stud verses the new longer
> stud that makes the difference.



That's all it is.


Once you get the new on in place, you use the lug nut and some washers to
pull it all the way on.


> Other comments suggest that you could
> bang it into place, at risk of the threads. And several videos and
> picture posts show some bar resting against the other studs to keep
> the hub from turning. I wouldn't do that for fear of flattening those
> threads. I might use a wooden handled sledge hammer.
>


Or put the brakes back together again, then have a helper step on the pedal
to hold the disk while you pull the stud in place.


--
Tegger
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 11:18 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic lug studs

On 06/25/2012 03:16 PM, Tegger wrote:
> dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote in news:jsa6cj$mjt$2@blue-new.rahul.net:
>
>>
>> hammering doesn't seem like a very bright idea,

>
>
> Hammering works just fine;


yes, it removes studs just fine. it brinells bearings just fine too.


> thje pros do it all the time.


the same "pros" that think they can "cure" radiator electrode potentials
by "grounding"? or the pros that are happy when you come back because a
bearing has inexplicably gone?

fact: every single bearing manufacturer out there says never to hammer.
there is a reason for that.
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/bearings/productlist/roller/cylindrical/Documents/BDABrochure5892.pdf&sa=U&ei=ESnpT8GoDoLY2AXSgKGtAg &ved=0CBkQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNEiHgb1h3pDfMHgDLVhmfotBy4 mhw>


> Imagine the
> pounding the wheel bearing takes in everyday use; you're unlikely to exceed
> that as you remove the old stud.


completely to the contrary. the "pounding" the bearing experiences as
transmitted through a nice soft cushy tire is one to two orders of
magnitude less than that imparted by a direct hammer blow.


> The stud is on there with less force than
> you might think.


which makes it nice and easy to press out with the correct tool.


>
>
>>
>> I think it is the angle with the broken stud verses the new longer
>> stud that makes the difference.

>
>
> That's all it is.
>
>
> Once you get the new on in place, you use the lug nut and some washers to
> pull it all the way on.
>
>
>> Other comments suggest that you could
>> bang it into place, at risk of the threads. And several videos and
>> picture posts show some bar resting against the other studs to keep
>> the hub from turning. I wouldn't do that for fear of flattening those
>> threads. I might use a wooden handled sledge hammer.
>>

>
> Or put the brakes back together again, then have a helper step on the pedal
> to hold the disk while you pull the stud in place.
>
>



--
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 11:22 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic lug studs

On 06/25/2012 10:16 AM, dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> it's very important to press it out, not hammer it - hammering brinell's
>> the bearings. you can usually rent a press from your local flaps, or
>> you can make one from a socket and a c-clamp. the former is a much
>> easier option.

>
> hammering doesn't seem like a very bright idea, but some videos show it.


monkey see, monkey do. it's still not a very bright idea.


> I have some healthy C-clamps and an assortment of sockets, if I have room
> to work between the hub and the splash shield, and the other parts that
> seem to be in the way. I might even have a combination press/wheel puller
> thing-a-ma-bob that's as old as I am, lying around somewhere.
>
> Probably in the same cabinet with my 40 year old impact driver.
>
>> if reinsertion requires a little grinding of a new [full length] stud

>
> I think it is the angle with the broken stud verses the new longer stud
> that makes the difference.


indeed.


> Other comments suggest that you could bang it
> into place, at risk of the threads.


provided it doesn't get to the thread roots, a little thread damage
really doesn't make a lot of difference.


> And several videos and picture posts
> show some bar resting against the other studs to keep the hub from turning.
> I wouldn't do that for fear of flattening those threads. I might use a
> wooden handled sledge hammer.


if you're using a press, it's really not an issue.


--
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2012, 11:28 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic lug studs

On 06/25/2012 10:07 AM, dold@96.usenet.us.com wrote:
> Tegger<invalid@example.com> wrote:
>> Can you link to the videos you saw? It may help in explaining the specifics.

>
> The cleanest one about the "grinding" thing was the stupidest one.
> A lot of nose sniffing, which I suppose is at the end of the project in an
> unheated garage, with a "driver's side" on the right, suggesting it might
> be in a colder climate than mine.
> It was a video look around his shop at the end, not a work in progress.
>
>
> Other videos seemed generic, and I have done this, generically, long ago.
> It just seems there are more pieces on the back side of this rotor/hub
> than I remember, that might prevent driving the stud out the back.
>
> I see mention on another page about the grinding. It isn't stated exactly,
> but now I infer that the broken stud clears everything on the way out, and
> you grind the flat because the longer new stud doesn't clear.
>
> My $10 impact driver seems to have grown feet, so I couldn't loosen the
> rotor screws. I'll have to take another look around, or maybe have my son
> whack a screwdriver with a hammer while I'm twisting it. I don't want to
> bugger the Phillips screw, though.


you can manage without the screw - all it does is hold the disk in place
when you're doing bake work - it's of no relevance once the wheel is on
and the lugs tightened.


>
> One page pointed out the little trick of using the brake hose bracket
> screws as the back-out screws to force the rotor off the hub. I discovered
> that for myself while checking the rear brakes. My Mazda had lug bolts,
> and the back-out holes in the drums were threaded for the lug bolts.
> As I sat there thinking about that, and wondering where I was going to find
> the right size bolts, I noticed the bolts on the brake line bracket.
>
> Front pads at 143,000 miles, 0.06", at the specified wear limit.
> Rear shoes: 0.16", service limit 0.08"
> I must need to drive faster.


or slow down occasionally!


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