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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 12:27 pm
John M.
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Posts: n/a
Default Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

Hi all,

My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).

Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.

I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
new pump. Damn!

Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.

So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
far).

Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?

Any other ideas?

Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
year? (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
cleaned and still no start)

I hope I haven't left anything out.


Thanks,

John M.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 02:48 pm
John M.
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

I also just checked the ECU(M?) code and it's only 17 - speed sensor.
Which may explain why I can only estimate how many miles are on it.
The spedometer quit working around 225,000.

I checked the code because the light did come on the other day. I put
off checking it because I've never done it before. As per various
instructions I look behind the carpet on the passenger side and only
saw the ECU but nothing else to look at. I did some poking around and
finally found the 2 hole plug behind the glove compartment which I had
to remove to get at the plug. Minor pia.

John M.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 08:33 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On 06/15/2012 11:48 AM, John M. wrote:
> I also just checked the ECU(M?) code and it's only 17 - speed sensor.
> Which may explain why I can only estimate how many miles are on it.
> The spedometer quit working around 225,000.


i gather that the sender units on that model is not reliable. but you
can take your chances on a junkyard unit for not a lot of money - it's
worth repairing rather than getting speeding tickets.

>
> I checked the code because the light did come on the other day. I put
> off checking it because I've never done it before. As per various
> instructions I look behind the carpet on the passenger side and only
> saw the ECU but nothing else to look at. I did some poking around and
> finally found the 2 hole plug behind the glove compartment which I had
> to remove to get at the plug. Minor pia.
>
> John M.



--
fact check required
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 08:40 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>
> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>
> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
> new pump. Damn!
>
> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>
> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
> far).
>
> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>
> Any other ideas?


sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
then re-grease and reassemble.

but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.


>
> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
> year?


there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
under the dash.


> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
> cleaned and still no start)
>
> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John M.


get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
when switched and relayed. work back from there.

but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
age of vehicle anyway.


--
fact check required
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 09:31 pm
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>
>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>
>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>> new pump. Damn!
>>
>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>
>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>> far).
>>
>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>
>> Any other ideas?

>
>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>then re-grease and reassemble.
>
>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>> year?

>
>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>under the dash.
>
>
>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>> cleaned and still no start)
>>
>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John M.

>
>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>
>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>age of vehicle anyway.



Thanks for the input. Tomorrow's another day. I was reluctant to
work on the back seat for fear of making my back worse but maybe I'll
feel better tomorrow.

John M.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2012, 09:34 pm
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:33:37 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 11:48 AM, John M. wrote:
>> I also just checked the ECU(M?) code and it's only 17 - speed sensor.
>> Which may explain why I can only estimate how many miles are on it.
>> The spedometer quit working around 225,000.

>
>i gather that the sender units on that model is not reliable. but you
>can take your chances on a junkyard unit for not a lot of money - it's
>worth repairing rather than getting speeding tickets.
>


Naaahh! I've always driven with a feather foot and I'm pretty good at
estimating my speed, especially at 45 and below. At highway speeds a
lot of people pass me. :-)

John M.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 17 Jun 2012, 12:26 pm
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>
>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>
>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>> new pump. Damn!
>>
>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>
>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>> far).
>>
>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>
>> Any other ideas?

>
>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>then re-grease and reassemble.
>
>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>> year?

>
>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>under the dash.
>
>
>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>> cleaned and still no start)
>>
>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John M.

>
>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>
>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>age of vehicle anyway.


In case you're curious I had to put this off because of my back. Maybe
in a week. And, FWIW, when I jumped the ECU for the codes the pump
started okay and has since.
--

John M.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 30 Jun 2012, 09:42 pm
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>
>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>
>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>> new pump. Damn!
>>
>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>
>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>> far).
>>
>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>
>> Any other ideas?

>
>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>then re-grease and reassemble.
>
>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>> year?

>
>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>under the dash.
>
>
>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>> cleaned and still no start)
>>
>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John M.

>
>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>
>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>age of vehicle anyway.



FWIW, my back landed me in the hospital and I'm still recovering. I'll
keep you posted when I can get to it.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jul 2012, 11:08 am
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:31:14 -0400, John M. <jcm1139TRASH@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>>
>>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>>
>>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>>> new pump. Damn!
>>>
>>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>>
>>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>>> far).
>>>
>>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?

>>
>>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>>then re-grease and reassemble.
>>
>>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>>> year?

>>
>>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>>under the dash.
>>
>>
>>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>>> cleaned and still no start)
>>>
>>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John M.

>>
>>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>>
>>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>>age of vehicle anyway.

>
>
>Thanks for the input. Tomorrow's another day. I was reluctant to
>work on the back seat for fear of making my back worse but maybe I'll
>feel better tomorrow.


FWIW, I still haven't gotten to it. My back did get worse and I'm
still waiting. I'll keep you posted when I do it.
--

John M.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jul 2012, 04:17 pm
John M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Fuel pump issue maybe 93 Civic DX AT

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>
>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>
>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>> new pump. Damn!
>>
>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>
>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>> far).
>>
>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>
>> Any other ideas?

>
>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>then re-grease and reassemble.
>
>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>> year?

>
>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>under the dash.
>
>
>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>> cleaned and still no start)
>>
>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John M.

>
>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>
>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>age of vehicle anyway.



This sort of a test. I've tried to comment in this thread a couple of
times to no avail.

FWIW, my back got worse and I'm still working on a recovery. I'll get
back when I can perform the work suggested.
--

John M.
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