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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 28 May 2012, 09:37 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 05/27/2012 05:13 PM, jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:21:53 PM UTC-5, Tegger wrote:
>>
>> You appear to be in MN. What's the coldest it gets for you in the
>> winter?
>>
>> Call a locksmith. They have special oils that are meant for this
>> purpose.
>>
>> If you can't locate a locksmith, go to a hardware store, gun shop,
>> or sewing machine shop, and get a small container of the very
>> lightest, thinnest oil they have. If it's aerosol, the better for
>> you.
>>
>> Spray or inject this light oil into the lock. Do not skimp. If not
>> an aerosol, drench the lock in the oil and work the key in and out
>> of the lock a few times to drive the oil deep into the lock.
>>
>> Also, use a NEW key, and not a new one made from the old one; worn
>> keys will cause big problems, especially with worn locks.


with vehicle locks, that's pretty much a complete waste of time and
money unless you also replace the cylinder and tumblers also. the
cylinders on car locks are made from cheap die-cast crap that's soft and
wears very quickly. same with the tumblers. once worn, spending the
money on a dealer cut key, as opposed to a reprint of existing, is not
fixing the problem, and may in fact be worse since the cylinder is "worn
to the wear".

that said, the cheapest way to get a new key is to use the valet.
usually, they're much thicker and don't wear like the normal key -
they're a good template for cheap "reprint" of a standard key.


>>
>> Do NOT use dry graphite as a lock lubricant.
>>

> It's been as cold as -30 degrees here. However, I find it hard to
> believe that the problem with the driver's side door lock is
> weather-related given that I had no problems until a few days ago.
>
> What kind of oil do I need? How do I know that this wouldn't make
> the problem worse? (You said that graphite would make the problem
> worse.)


graphite's fine provided it's carried proper key oil.


>
> If the light oil works, is it a permanent fix, or do I still need to
> have the tumblers or other lock mechanism fixed/replaced?


if worn, the only real cure is to replace the cylinder and tumblers.
it's usually pretty easy on a honda since the mechanical doors locks are
so rudimentary. however, unless you do it yourself, be prepared to pay
big bucks at the dealer.


> Would it
> be a good idea to treat the door lock on the passenger's side as
> preventative maintenance?


not usually. the passenger side is usually not worn to anywhere near
the same degree, so you can typically not replace and everything will be
fine.


> Is there a chance that I could ever have a
> similar problem with the ignition? If that happens, I'd need to call
> for a tow truck.


if you can do this stuff yourself, and you really want to re-key, then
go ahead and do the ignition also. but on most hondas, the ignition
cylinder is made of better material than the door, thus doesn't wear as
fast and you're not anywhere near as likely to have a problem. door is
priority one.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 28 May 2012, 09:38 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 05/28/2012 07:25 AM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:
> On 5/27/12 2:21 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote in
>> news:cc8ec4ec-d95f-4a8c-8255-f2e9b5e54db8@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:14:58 PM UTC-5, Tegger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know that little flap you need to push aside to get the key in
>>>> the lock? Does that flap still close on your lock?
>>>>
>>> The flap never failed. Today, I'm able to stick the key all the way
>>> in the door lock on the driver's side, but I can't turn it.
>>>
>>> Interestingly enough, the flapper on the driver's side door lock
>>> failed in my previous car (1988 Honda Civic), but I never had a
>>> problem with that lock.
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> You appear to be in MN. What's the coldest it gets for you in the winter?
>>
>> Call a locksmith. They have special oils that are meant for this purpose.
>>
>> If you can't locate a locksmith, go to a hardware store, gun shop, or
>> sewing machine shop, and get a small container of the very lightest,
>> thinnest oil they have. If it's aerosol, the better for you.
>>
>> Spray or inject this light oil into the lock. Do not skimp. If not an
>> aerosol, drench the lock in the oil and work the key in and out of the
>> lock
>> a few times to drive the oil deep into the lock.
>>
>> Also, use a NEW key, and not a new one made from the old one; worn keys
>> will cause big problems, especially with worn locks.
>>
>> Do NOT use dry graphite as a lock lubricant.
>>

>
> I thought those dry powdered graphite-packed syringes were a locksmith's
> first response for sticky keyways/tumblers??


they are. graphite is a solid state lubricant and doesn't freeze.
tegger's way out on an imaginary limb on this one.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 28 May 2012, 10:01 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 05/28/2012 10:35 AM, Tegger wrote:
> "Douglas C. Neidermeyer"<sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote in
> news:jq01sr$bn6$1@news.albasani.net:
>
>> On 5/27/12 2:21 PM, Tegger wrote:

>
>>>
>>> Do NOT use dry graphite as a lock lubricant.
>>>

>>
>> I thought those dry powdered graphite-packed syringes were a
>> locksmith's first response for sticky keyways/tumblers??
>>

>
>
>
> Ordinarily, I guess they would be. The problem with car locks -- and what
> makes them different -- is that they pick up a lot of water, and water
> that's sometimes mixed with salt.


and none of that has anything to do with "lightness" of "oil".


>
> Automakers install a little metal door in the key slot in an attempt at
> keeping out most of the water. It does work against dust and dirt, but each
> time you push the key into a wet lock, you push some water into the lock.
> Locks are made of corrodable metals. Over time, corrosion makes the
> tumblers stick in their sliding-recesses. This eventually causes the
> tumblers to stop sliding, and either 1) the key won't go in, or 2) it won't
> come out, or 3) it won't turn.


actually, the metals in door locks are fairly inert. their problem is
that they're soft and they wear rather than corrode.


>
> In addition to all that, the tiny spring that holds the flap closed tends
> to break. And at that point the flap hangs open and allows /everything/
> inside.


the spring is usually fairly reliable. if your "flap" is stuck open,
the chances are, some kind fellow with a screwdriver has just "adjusted"
your door lock for you as they attempted to help you empty the glove box
and give you a reason to buy a new stereo.


>
> Graphite is meant to lubricate locks that are always DRY, or which have a
> chance to dry out if wet, such as house locks. If you live in Arizona,
> graphite will work for you. Otherwise, graphite in an automotive lock tends
> to form a slurry with the water, making it take even longer to evaporate,
> and letting it corrode the metal parts even more. Graphite does not prevent
> corrosion.


tegger, the "slurry" is wear product from the soft die-cast cylinder and
soft brass tumblers.

in case you were to be interested [???] anyone can considerably extend
the life of their door locks by carefully inserting the key and allowing
it to self-position laterally before exerting any rotation force to it.
but for most people with all kinds of surplus crap on their key ring,
that's never going to happen and locks are going to wear quickly.


>
> Lock Ease, probably the most popular lubricant meant specifically for
> locks, isn't really a good choice for automotive locks used in snowy
> climates. You need an oily substance, not a graphite-y substance. Some will
> tell you not to use an oil on account of dust, but that warning is not
> applicable to car locks.


graphite doesn't freeze tegger - that's why it's ideal for automotive locks.


>
> I have found that a substance called "Rust Check",


completely bogus. the lock cylinder is die-cast [predominantly zinc],
the tumblers are brass, and the return springs are stainless [very high
quality too i may add - it prevents them fatiguing and breaking - what
people really don't like to happen in locks]. none of them "rust".


> which is apparently sold
> only in Ontario, Canada, works the best. But then it never gets much below
> -10F where I live. A very similar substance is sold under the Carwell brand
> in New York State. The OP's problem is that he's in an area subject to
> extremley low temperatures, so he needs an oil even lighter than the one
> used by Carwell. A gun-shop or sewing-machine shop may be able to help.


just use graphite and be done with it. a good flushing with wd40 first
to float out wear debris won't hurt either - if you don't mind a week of
dirty oil streaks on your car door.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 28 May 2012, 10:55 pm
Al
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 5/26/2012 4:30 PM, jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a 2004 Honda Accord DX with manual door locks.
>
> In the last few days, I've had difficulty inserting the key into the door lock on the driver's side. It's become impossible at times today, which forces me to get in the car from the passenger's side so I can unlock the driver's side door. (Fortunately, that door lock isn't problematic. This confirms that the problem is specific to the driver's side door lock.) Now I'm missing the front bench seat and column-mounted shifter that some GMs, Fords, and Chryslers used to have. Sliding into the driver's seat from the other side of the car isn't an option in a car with bucket seats.
>
> At the beginning of last year, I had the same problem with the trunk lock - the key wouldn't go all the way in, and I had to use the remote trunk release to open the trunk. The tumblers in the trunk lock were the problem. So I had to have the trunk lock replaced, and I have to use a different key to open it. (The dealer offered me the option of having the trunk lock configured to work with the original key, but I decided against spending the extra money this would have required.)
>
> I'll have to take my car to the dealer again and see if the tumblers in the driver's side door lock are the problem.
>
> How common is it for cars to have bad tumblers? Is there anything I can do to prevent bad tumblers?
>
> How much risk is there that I'll have the same problem later with the ignition? I'm hoping that the more protected environment of the ignition switch will prevent such a problem from happening there. But if the problem happens there, it will be much more serious. At least when the problem is just a door or trunk lock, I have workarounds. If I can't insert the key into the ignition, then I'll be stranded and have to call for a tow truck.


You could switch the tumbler/cylinder from the passenger door to the
driver side door. That way you would still have the same key for
the door and ignition. Under ordinary circumstances passenger
door locks are hardly ever used and are not even being included
on many newer models. I think it is unusual for both your trunk
and one door to have a problem - do you have kids sticking stuff
in those locks, or do you use your key as a pry bar, screwdriver,
or other tool? I would not worry about the ignition lock.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 28 May 2012, 11:10 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 05/28/2012 08:55 PM, Al wrote:
> On 5/26/2012 4:30 PM, jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote:
>> I have a 2004 Honda Accord DX with manual door locks.
>>
>> In the last few days, I've had difficulty inserting the key into the
>> door lock on the driver's side. It's become impossible at times today,
>> which forces me to get in the car from the passenger's side so I can
>> unlock the driver's side door. (Fortunately, that door lock isn't
>> problematic. This confirms that the problem is specific to the
>> driver's side door lock.) Now I'm missing the front bench seat and
>> column-mounted shifter that some GMs, Fords, and Chryslers used to
>> have. Sliding into the driver's seat from the other side of the car
>> isn't an option in a car with bucket seats.
>>
>> At the beginning of last year, I had the same problem with the trunk
>> lock - the key wouldn't go all the way in, and I had to use the remote
>> trunk release to open the trunk. The tumblers in the trunk lock were
>> the problem. So I had to have the trunk lock replaced, and I have to
>> use a different key to open it. (The dealer offered me the option of
>> having the trunk lock configured to work with the original key, but I
>> decided against spending the extra money this would have required.)
>>
>> I'll have to take my car to the dealer again and see if the tumblers
>> in the driver's side door lock are the problem.
>>
>> How common is it for cars to have bad tumblers? Is there anything I
>> can do to prevent bad tumblers?
>>
>> How much risk is there that I'll have the same problem later with the
>> ignition? I'm hoping that the more protected environment of the
>> ignition switch will prevent such a problem from happening there. But
>> if the problem happens there, it will be much more serious. At least
>> when the problem is just a door or trunk lock, I have workarounds. If
>> I can't insert the key into the ignition, then I'll be stranded and
>> have to call for a tow truck.

>
> You could switch the tumbler/cylinder from the passenger door to the
> driver side door.


rarely possible - not on a honda anyway - they have left and right
cylinders with external keyways just to prevent you cheaping out of
buying new.


> That way you would still have the same key for
> the door and ignition. Under ordinary circumstances passenger
> door locks are hardly ever used and are not even being included
> on many newer models. I think it is unusual for both your trunk
> and one door to have a problem - do you have kids sticking stuff
> in those locks, or do you use your key as a pry bar, screwdriver,
> or other tool? I would not worry about the ignition lock.



--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 29 May 2012, 06:56 am
Douglas C. Neidermeyer
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 5/28/12 1:35 PM, Tegger wrote:
> "Douglas C. Neidermeyer"<sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote in
> news:jq01sr$bn6$1@news.albasani.net:
>
>> On 5/27/12 2:21 PM, Tegger wrote:

>
>>>
>>> Do NOT use dry graphite as a lock lubricant.
>>>

>>
>> I thought those dry powdered graphite-packed syringes were a
>> locksmith's first response for sticky keyways/tumblers??
>>

>
>
>
> Ordinarily, I guess they would be. The problem with car locks -- and what
> makes them different -- is that they pick up a lot of water, and water
> that's sometimes mixed with salt.
>
> Automakers install a little metal door in the key slot in an attempt at
> keeping out most of the water. It does work against dust and dirt, but each
> time you push the key into a wet lock, you push some water into the lock.
> Locks are made of corrodable metals. Over time, corrosion makes the
> tumblers stick in their sliding-recesses. This eventually causes the
> tumblers to stop sliding, and either 1) the key won't go in, or 2) it won't
> come out, or 3) it won't turn.
>
> In addition to all that, the tiny spring that holds the flap closed tends
> to break. And at that point the flap hangs open and allows /everything/
> inside.
>
> Graphite is meant to lubricate locks that are always DRY, or which have a
> chance to dry out if wet, such as house locks. If you live in Arizona,
> graphite will work for you. Otherwise, graphite in an automotive lock tends
> to form a slurry with the water, making it take even longer to evaporate,
> and letting it corrode the metal parts even more. Graphite does not prevent
> corrosion.
>
> Lock Ease, probably the most popular lubricant meant specifically for
> locks, isn't really a good choice for automotive locks used in snowy
> climates. You need an oily substance, not a graphite-y substance. Some will
> tell you not to use an oil on account of dust, but that warning is not
> applicable to car locks.
>
> I have found that a substance called "Rust Check", which is apparently sold
> only in Ontario, Canada, works the best. But then it never gets much below
> -10F where I live. A very similar substance is sold under the Carwell brand
> in New York State. The OP's problem is that he's in an area subject to
> extremley low temperatures, so he needs an oil even lighter than the one
> used by Carwell. A gun-shop or sewing-machine shop may be able to help.
>


Oh.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 29 May 2012, 08:40 am
Al
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 5/29/2012 12:10 AM, jim beam wrote:
> On 05/28/2012 08:55 PM, Al wrote:
>> On 5/26/2012 4:30 PM, jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote:


>>
>> You could switch the tumbler/cylinder from the passenger door to the
>> driver side door.

>
> rarely possible - not on a honda anyway - they have left and right
> cylinders with external keyways just to prevent you cheaping out of
> buying new.
>
>
>>

opps, sorry. Didn't know that. OP, ignore that suggestion.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
jhsu802701@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

Thanks for your suggestions. With the aid of WD-40, I am now able to lock/unlock the driver's side door with the key from outside the car.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2012, 08:55 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote in
news:ec529522-2064-4d53-b4f6-aa7c2c3770c6@googlegroups.com:

> Thanks for your suggestions. With the aid of WD-40, I am now able to
> lock/unlock the driver's side door with the key from outside the car.



WD-40 is not a lubricant. Get some real oil in there before it sticks
again.

--
Tegger
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2012, 09:14 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Problem with door lock in my 2004 Honda Accord (tumblers?)

On 06/04/2012 06:55 PM, Tegger wrote:
> jhsu802701@gmail.com wrote in
> news:ec529522-2064-4d53-b4f6-aa7c2c3770c6@googlegroups.com:
>
>> Thanks for your suggestions. With the aid of WD-40, I am now able to
>> lock/unlock the driver's side door with the key from outside the car.

>
>
> WD-40 is not a lubricant.


rather than just regurgitate the same old same old, why don't you show
us how your research allowed you to arrive at this conclusion? or
instead, if you have grounds on which to disagree, why don't you file a
complaint with the ad standards council?

<http://www.adstandards.com/en/ConsumerComplaints/howToSubmitAComplaint.aspx>

because the manufacturer thinks different.

<http://www.wd40.com/uses-tips/function/frees-sticky-mechanisms/>


> Get some real oil in there before it sticks
> again.


would that be oil that freezes?


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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