Honda Car Forum

Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This is
also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
all manual transmissions.

I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same oil
(10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use the
SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.

a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?

b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?

c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt '94
Civic?

"JJJ" <jjjjj@jjjjj.com> wrote in message
news:3f42f5c2_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This is
> also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
> http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
> recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
> all manual transmissions.
>
> I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same
oil
> (10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
> verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use
the
> SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
>
> a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?

Honda's proprietary MTF may not be available in Australia, so they default
to 10W-30. Keep in mind that engine oil has worked reasonably well for most
drivers for many years, but MTF works better -- if you can find it. I
suspect motor oil is no longer suitable because of the increasing use of
slippery friction modifiers to increase fuel efficiency. These impair the
function of the synchros.


> b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?

You may use either 10W-30 or MTF. MTF is preferred since it gives better
shifting feel.

> c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt
'94
> Civic?

Not according to Honda.

In article <3f42f5c2_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, "JJJ" <jjjjj@jjjjj.com> wrote:

>Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This is
>also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
>http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
>recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
>all manual transmissions.
>
>I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same oil
>(10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
>verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use the
>SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
>

>a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?
Because 10W-30 or MTF is specified! Would you use 10W-30 in a transmission
that specified some other lubricant?
I haven't tried it myself, but some posters have stated that the MTF
really smooths shifting.

>
>b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?
No. Different weights were specified for different temperature conditions,
countries and years. Currently, 5W-20 is specified for new Hondas in NA.
>
>c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt '94
>Civic?
Maybe. I'm not sure which "GL" version it is, but I've read that one of
them is harmful to brass/copper. Don't know if Honda has brass/copper
etc., so that's why I say "maybe".

Honda's MTF isn't 75-80... at least not as far as I can tell. The reason
that older Honda manuals state 10w30 is that the MTF is fairly new... I
think they started using it in 96 in the US. They recommend it for all
vehicles now because current 10w30 is a little different from the way it was
in 1987. I hear it is a little too "slick" (the same reason you shouldn't
use synthetic oils in the Honda tranny... too slick for the syncros to do
their job properly.)


> recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
> all manual transmissions.
>
> I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same
oil
> (10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
> verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use
the
> SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
>
> a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?
>
> b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?
>
> c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt
'94
> Civic?
>
>
>

Strange about the synthetic recommendation.....

I've used synthetic 10w-30 in my 93 honda civic coupe since I bought it (had 22K
km on it at that time) until I had the transmission replaced last summer (at
305K km). Always shifted smooth with no problems. The "new to me" transmission
got a fluid change to synthetic within a week and is still running strong (at
361K km).

The transmission shop was suprised as 25% of the original clutch surface was
still there. The mechanic also mentioned that he saw alot of civics between
150K to 200K km that needed a new tranny.

Scott

Jafir Elkurd wrote:

> Honda's MTF isn't 75-80... at least not as far as I can tell. The reason
> that older Honda manuals state 10w30 is that the MTF is fairly new... I
> think they started using it in 96 in the US. They recommend it for all
> vehicles now because current 10w30 is a little different from the way it was
> in 1987. I hear it is a little too "slick" (the same reason you shouldn't
> use synthetic oils in the Honda tranny... too slick for the syncros to do
> their job properly.)
>
> > recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
> > all manual transmissions.
> >
> > I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same
> oil
> > (10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
> > verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use
> the
> > SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
> >
> > a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?
> >
> > b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?
> >
> > c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt
> '94
> > Civic?
> >
> >
> >

Gear oil 75w80 and engine oil at 10w30 are about the same viscosity.
Different rating systems.

--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:vk6pg8l1kcvv31@corp.supernews.com...
> Honda's MTF isn't 75-80... at least not as far as I can tell. The reason
> that older Honda manuals state 10w30 is that the MTF is fairly new... I
> think they started using it in 96 in the US. They recommend it for all
> vehicles now because current 10w30 is a little different from the way it
was
> in 1987. I hear it is a little too "slick" (the same reason you shouldn't
> use synthetic oils in the Honda tranny... too slick for the syncros to do
> their job properly.)
>
>
> > recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid,
for
> > all manual transmissions.
> >
> > I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same
> oil
> > (10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers
to
> > verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use
> the
> > SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
> >
> > a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?
> >
> > b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?
> >
> > c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt
> '94
> > Civic?
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Scott Holman <s.holman@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<3F438B3B.BB307816@nowhere.com>...
> Strange about the synthetic recommendation.....
>
> I've used synthetic 10w-30 in my 93 honda civic coupe since I bought it (had 22K
> km on it at that time) until I had the transmission replaced last summer (at
> 305K km). Always shifted smooth with no problems. The "new to me" transmission
> got a fluid change to synthetic within a week and is still running strong (at
> 361K km).

> The transmission shop was suprised as 25% of the original clutch surface was
> still there. The mechanic also mentioned that he saw alot of civics between
> 150K to 200K km that needed a new tranny.

Why did you have to replace the transmission? A friend and I have had
Civics and Integras of various years, some with over 200,000 miles on
them and none have ever had to have the tranny replaced (all manuals).

We used Red Line MTL exclusively.

The one time I used Mobil 1, the shifting got very notchy and I was
probably damaging the synchros because the stuff is too slippery for
them to work properly.

You might also search under the term "5-speed transmisson" as there is
another fairly recent thread on this.

--- Bror Jace

Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.

Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking that has
a issue.

--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"Bror Jace" <brorjace@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1373663.0308201831.49b2d7d4@posting.google.c om...
> Scott Holman <s.holman@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:<3F438B3B.BB307816@nowhere.com>...
> > Strange about the synthetic recommendation.....
> >
> > I've used synthetic 10w-30 in my 93 honda civic coupe since I bought it
(had 22K
> > km on it at that time) until I had the transmission replaced last summer
(at
> > 305K km). Always shifted smooth with no problems. The "new to me"
transmission
> > got a fluid change to synthetic within a week and is still running
strong (at
> > 361K km).
>
> > The transmission shop was suprised as 25% of the original clutch surface
was
> > still there. The mechanic also mentioned that he saw alot of civics
between
> > 150K to 200K km that needed a new tranny.
>
> Why did you have to replace the transmission? A friend and I have had
> Civics and Integras of various years, some with over 200,000 miles on
> them and none have ever had to have the tranny replaced (all manuals).
>
> We used Red Line MTL exclusively.
>
> The one time I used Mobil 1, the shifting got very notchy and I was
> probably damaging the synchros because the stuff is too slippery for
> them to work properly.
>
> You might also search under the term "5-speed transmisson" as there is
> another fairly recent thread on this.
>
> --- Bror Jace

Bror Jace wrote:

> Scott Holman <s.holman@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<3F438B3B.BB307816@nowhere.com>...
> > Strange about the synthetic recommendation.....
> >
> > I've used synthetic 10w-30 in my 93 honda civic coupe since I bought it (had 22K
> > km on it at that time) until I had the transmission replaced last summer (at
> > 305K km). Always shifted smooth with no problems. The "new to me" transmission
> > got a fluid change to synthetic within a week and is still running strong (at
> > 361K km).
>
> > The transmission shop was suprised as 25% of the original clutch surface was
> > still there. The mechanic also mentioned that he saw alot of civics between
> > 150K to 200K km that needed a new tranny.
>
> Why did you have to replace the transmission? A friend and I have had
> Civics and Integras of various years, some with over 200,000 miles on
> them and none have ever had to have the tranny replaced (all manuals).
>
> We used Red Line MTL exclusively.
>
> The one time I used Mobil 1, the shifting got very notchy and I was
> probably damaging the synchros because the stuff is too slippery for
> them to work properly.
>
> You might also search under the term "5-speed transmisson" as there is
> another fairly recent thread on this.
>
> --- Bror Jace

Something within the transmission (not throwout bearing) went. "Went" means horrible grinding
noise. Not worth having the tranny rebuilt (approx $1400 CAN), so I opted for a used
transmission installed for $700 CAN.

I believe the "new to me" tranny was brought over from overseas (Japan?). That's the story the
tranny shop gave me.

Scott

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:14:03 -0500, "Jafir Elkurd"
<jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote:

>Honda's MTF isn't 75-80... at least not as far as I can tell.

It was listed as 75W/80 API GL4 on the Honda Australia Web site - no more
though since they turned it into another Flash infested swamp. I believe
the 75W/80 GL (IIRC approx. = a 25W/35 by engine viscosity measure)
designation is probably accurate for MTF, even the stuff sold in the U.S.
and I think they should be obliged to tell us what it is... within the
spirit of the Magnussen- Moss(?) act.

> The reason
>that older Honda manuals state 10w30 is that the MTF is fairly new... I
>think they started using it in 96 in the US. They recommend it for all
>vehicles now because current 10w30 is a little different from the way it was
>in 1987. I hear it is a little too "slick" (the same reason you shouldn't
>use synthetic oils in the Honda tranny... too slick for the syncros to do
>their job properly.)

No - its' because of the reduction in anti-wear additives of engine oils in
the past few years as a nod to emissions and potential catalytic converter
damage. The current engine oils are not suitable for a transmission and
since the MTF is for trans only, they can even enhance the anti-wear
package... over what they used with engine oils.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??