Honda Car Forum

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:14:54 +1000, "JJJ" <jjjjj@jjjjj.com> wrote:

>Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This is
>also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
>http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
>recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid, for
>all manual transmissions.

Which model year is that manual? In the U.S., since ~1996 Honda recommends
10W/30 engine oil only as a temporary emergency transmission fill until the
Honda MTF can be substutited.

>I was also informed by Honda that all dealers in Australia use the same oil
>(10w-30) for engines and manual transmissions. I called a few dealers to
>verify this and found it to be true. They all said that they do not use the
>SAE75-80 manual transmission fluid in this vehicle.
>
>a) Why isn't 75w-80 fluid used in these vehicles?

I wonder... how the regs on engine oil compare in Australia vs. what we
have in the U.S. Due to "concerns" voiced by the U.S. auto mfrs about
catalytic converter damage due to poisoning by the ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl
Dithyo-Phosphate) anti-wear additive, it's been more or less eliminated
from engine oils in the U.S. The govt. had a hand in this when they
obliged the auto mfrs to offer extended (100K mile IIRC) warranties on
emissions equipment.

>b) Do you have to use 10w-30 in all Civics?

If your engine oil is the same as we get, absolutely not. Due to the
change of anti-wear additive in engine oils I'd be extremely wary about
using engine oil in a transmission now. It's possible that the new fairly
recently introduced engine oil anti-wear additives, since the "ban" on ZDDP
work OK in a transmission but I'd want to be sure.

>c) Is there any risk in using MTF Plus 75w-80 API GL4 fluid in a 1.5lt '94
>Civic?

In your situation I'd insist on the Honda MTF and in the absence of that
I'd enquire of the lubricants mfrs what they think. I know that the Honda
Aus web site used to say that the Honda MTF was 75W/80 API GL4 (IIRC it was
also on the bottle - possibly due to Australian regulations on specifying
proprietary fluids ??) so I'd think Castrol et.al. would know what's going
on here. BTW I've mentioned this 75W/80 API GL4 spec for the Honda MTF
mentioned at the Honda Australia web site here on this NG several times -
apparently nobody noticed.:-)

I'm still also wondering how Honda gets away with the MTF specification in
the U.S., in the face of regulations here governing warranty claims and the
use of generic fluids.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"jjj" <jjj@jjj.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f49c2c7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
> news:3f45fd09.1835460@news.tellurian.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:14:54 +1000, "JJJ" <jjjjj@jjjjj.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This
> is
> > >also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
> > >http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
> > >recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid,
> for
> > >all manual transmissions.
> >
> > Which model year is that manual? In the U.S., since ~1996 Honda
> recommends
> > 10W/30 engine oil only as a temporary emergency transmission fill until
> the
> > Honda MTF can be substutited.
> >
>
>
> It is a 1994 Honda Civic GLi. The manual explicity states that 10w-30
must
> be used in manual transmissions.

Well, yes.....Honda MTF didn't exist when the manual was printed.


> I went to my local Honda dealer and purchased MFF Plus Manual Transmission
> fluid. They sell them here in 1 litre containers, costing $15AUS each.
> The bottle clear states that it is a SAE75w-80 API GL4 fluid.
>
>
>
>

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:3f45fd09.1835460@news.tellurian.com...
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:14:54 +1000, "JJJ" <jjjjj@jjjjj.com> wrote:
>
> >Honda recommends the use of SAE 10w-30 Engine Oil in the gearbox. This
is
> >also stated in the manual. Yet, their website
> >http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/index.htm
> >recommends the use of MTF Plus Manual Transmission, a SAE 75-80 fluid,
for
> >all manual transmissions.
>
> Which model year is that manual? In the U.S., since ~1996 Honda
recommends
> 10W/30 engine oil only as a temporary emergency transmission fill until
the
> Honda MTF can be substutited.
>


It is a 1994 Honda Civic GLi. The manual explicity states that 10w-30 must
be used in manual transmissions.

I went to my local Honda dealer and purchased MFF Plus Manual Transmission
fluid. They sell them here in 1 litre containers, costing $15AUS each.
The bottle clear states that it is a SAE75w-80 API GL4 fluid.

"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Sg%0b.71900$hc.50112@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
> Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.
>
> Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking that has
> a issue.

Like, what would you like to know? Interval? Anywhere from 30,000 -
50,000 miles. My firend has gone even longer, I think.

I live in upstate NY where it can go from -30F all the way up to 100F
in the summer.

Anything else?

--- Bror Jace

thats exactly the info I needed.

THANKS.

I'm just seeing of I can find and similarity on the input shaft bearing
failures.

--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"Bror Jace" <brorjace@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1373663.0308281943.25cf7ff8@posting.google.c om...
> "Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<Sg%0b.71900$hc.50112@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
> > Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.
> >
> > Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking that
has
> > a issue.
>
> Like, what would you like to know? Interval? Anywhere from 30,000 -
> 50,000 miles. My firend has gone even longer, I think.
>
> I live in upstate NY where it can go from -30F all the way up to 100F
> in the summer.
>
> Anything else?
>
> --- Bror Jace

Thanks.........

I'm just trying to narrow down the input shaft bearing failures I've seen.
Most, if not all have used Redline MTL.

--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"Curtis Newton" <cnewton@remove-me.akamail.com> wrote in message
news:0jsukvkd5ne08eco8fsu7765i2qvfl60nj@4ax.com...
> On 28 Aug 2003 20:43:10 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
>
> >"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<Sg%0b.71900$hc.50112@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
> >> Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.
> >>
> >> Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking
that has
> >> a issue.
> >
> >Like, what would you like to know? Interval? Anywhere from 30,000 -
> >50,000 miles. My firend has gone even longer, I think.
> >
>
>
> Mista Bone: Just to add, I had a 1994 Acura Integra 5-spd that has
> 91,000 miles on it when I traded it. I replaced the tranny fluid with
> Redline MTL at about 10,000 miles and then at 30,000, 60,000, and
> 90,000 miles.
>
> I traded the car soon thereafter the last interval, but the tranny
> shifted very smooth.
>
> This is near Denver, CO.
>
>
> -
> --
> Curtis Newton
> cnewton@remove-me.akaMail.com
> http://surf.to/cnewton
> <delete remove-me. to respond to email>
> ICQ: 4899169

Specifically, but not exclusively, to Bror Jace:

Your postings on oil are very specific, and persuasive. I'm curious,
where did you get your knowledge? PhD Petroleum Engineering, School of
Hard Knocks, or something in between?? Since buying my Element four
months ago I scoured the internet to get some specific info on break-in
oil, with little success. The manual says first oil change at 10 K; the
dealer sent me a letter saying 5K; the counter guys said 3K, I did it at
2325K; one dealer said there is no break-in oil in use anymore, another
said emphatically that there is, but could not be in any way specific. I
saw your post on molybdenum and am comforted by that.

Do you have knowledge on automatic transmission oils as well? My tranny
is auto, and having run at highway speed 'Out West' in 100 plus weather
for extensive miles, wonder about an early oil change (less than 30K)???

Thanks in advance

Sam

Is MTL what is recommended?
I just poured some Redline 10w40 into mine, since it is supposed to use engine
oil.
|
|I'm just trying to narrow down the input shaft bearing failures I've seen.
|Most, if not all have used Redline MTL.
|
|--
|Charles Tague
|93 Honda Civic DX HB
|1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
|With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
|86 Pontiac Trans Am
|225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
|305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
|http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
|"Curtis Newton" <cnewton@remove-me.akamail.com> wrote in message
|news:0jsukvkd5ne08eco8fsu7765i2qvfl60nj@4ax.com.. .
|> On 28 Aug 2003 20:43:10 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
|>
|> >"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
|news:<Sg%0b.71900$hc.50112@fe3.columbus.rr.com>.. .
|> >> Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.
|> >>
|> >> Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking
|that has
|> >> a issue.
|> >
|> >Like, what would you like to know? Interval? Anywhere from 30,000 -
|> >50,000 miles. My firend has gone even longer, I think.
|> >
|>
|>
|> Mista Bone: Just to add, I had a 1994 Acura Integra 5-spd that has
|> 91,000 miles on it when I traded it. I replaced the tranny fluid with
|> Redline MTL at about 10,000 miles and then at 30,000, 60,000, and
|> 90,000 miles.
|>
|> I traded the car soon thereafter the last interval, but the tranny
|> shifted very smooth.
|>
|> This is near Denver, CO.
|>
|>
|> -
|> --
|> Curtis Newton
|> cnewton@remove-me.akaMail.com
|> http://surf.to/cnewton
|> <delete remove-me. to respond to email>
|> ICQ: 4899169
|
|

Rex in Fort Worth

The CRX I just bought - with noisy bearing is a 181K mile unit that apparently
had the original lubricant in it.
|
|I'm just trying to narrow down the input shaft bearing failures I've seen.
|Most, if not all have used Redline MTL.
|
|--
|Charles Tague
|93 Honda Civic DX HB
|1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
|With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
|86 Pontiac Trans Am
|225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
|305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
|http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
|"Curtis Newton" <cnewton@remove-me.akamail.com> wrote in message
|news:0jsukvkd5ne08eco8fsu7765i2qvfl60nj@4ax.com.. .
|> On 28 Aug 2003 20:43:10 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:
|>
|> >"Mista Bone" <MistaB0ne@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
|news:<Sg%0b.71900$hc.50112@fe3.columbus.rr.com>.. .
|> >> Bror Jace, I know we see opposite sides of the Redline MTL issue.
|> >>
|> >> Could you give me some info on your fluid change info. I'm thinking
|that has
|> >> a issue.
|> >
|> >Like, what would you like to know? Interval? Anywhere from 30,000 -
|> >50,000 miles. My firend has gone even longer, I think.
|> >
|>
|>
|> Mista Bone: Just to add, I had a 1994 Acura Integra 5-spd that has
|> 91,000 miles on it when I traded it. I replaced the tranny fluid with
|> Redline MTL at about 10,000 miles and then at 30,000, 60,000, and
|> 90,000 miles.
|>
|> I traded the car soon thereafter the last interval, but the tranny
|> shifted very smooth.
|>
|> This is near Denver, CO.
|>
|>
|> -
|> --
|> Curtis Newton
|> cnewton@remove-me.akaMail.com
|> http://surf.to/cnewton
|> <delete remove-me. to respond to email>
|> ICQ: 4899169
|
|

Rex in Fort Worth

sam <innomid@worldlynx.net> wrote in message news:<3f4e32d3_1@newsfeed>...
> Specifically, but not exclusively, to Bror Jace:
>
> Your postings on oil are very specific, and persuasive. I'm curious,
> where did you get your knowledge? PhD Petroleum Engineering, School of
> Hard Knocks, or something in between??

** Here 'n there. I have no formal background. I'm just a 2-decade
DIYer and I soak up info on oil & lubrication like a sponge. >:^)

Since buying my Element four
> months ago I scoured the internet to get some specific info on break-in
> oil, with little success. The manual says first oil change at 10 K; the
> dealer sent me a letter saying 5K; the counter guys said 3K, I did it at
> 2325K; one dealer said there is no break-in oil in use anymore, another
> said emphatically that there is, but could not be in any way specific. I
> saw your post on molybdenum and am comforted by that.

** We have some info on Honda break-in oils and their OEM stuff as
well at Bob's place. (U.S. & Canada versions)

> Do you have knowledge on automatic transmission oils as well? My tranny
> is auto, and having run at highway speed 'Out West' in 100 plus weather
> for extensive miles, wonder about an early oil change (less than 30K)???

** Sorry, I'm not an auto fan and have little experience with ATFs ...
but others on Bob's site do.

Here's Bob's URL:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

** Please search around (using the "search" feature) first before
posting new topics/threads.

** Bror Jace