Honda Car Forum

In article <5b3ae039.0307120605.2e333a43@posting.google.com >,
kainip@hotmail.com (Kai) wrote:
>I would like to share my emission test experience with you. It may
>help some of you having problem passing the Ontario drive clean test
>with this car.
>I have learned a lot in the last 7 days.
>First a little history of my car. It has approx. 220,000 km on it now,
>it doesn't burn oil, it may go down one eighth of an inch from the
>full mark in 6 months, used synthetic oil from the very first oil
>change since new, changed oil and filter every 6 months. (I know some
>of you may say that's too long, but that's my car ) Back to the
>emissions test.
>Emission test first in effect for this car in July 1999.
>ASM 2525 test
> Limit Reading Result
>HCppm 80 29 pass
>CO % 0.45 0.34 pass
>NOppm 607 196 pass
>RPM 1897
>
>Everything passed.Good car
>
>July 2001
>
> 80 35 pass
> 0.45 0.79 fail
> 607 324 pass
>RPM 1857
>
>Thinking it may be the oxygen sensor.I tried to change it myself, but
>didn't have a proper socket for it. Didn't want to spend $23.00 for
>the socket. I didn't know how tight it was from the factory, I may not
>be able to get it out. So I took the car to the garage and see what
>they come up with. They call back to tell me may be it is the oxygen
>sensor and cost $240can total parts and labor plus emission test
>after. I Ok it and it passed.
>
>July 2001 after O2 changed.
>
> 80 35 pass
> 0.45 0.26 pass
> 607 121 pass
>RPM 1842
>
>Good for another two years
>
>July 2003 this is the experience I like to share with you.
>
>Ontario introduced a new CURB IDLE TEST. I have to change the chart.
>
> ASM2525 CURB IDLE TEST
> Limit reading result limit reading result
>HC ppm 71 67 pass 200 40 pass
>CO % 0.40 0.92 fail 1.00 0.17 pass
>NO ppm 537 198 pass n/a n/a n/a
>RPM 1790 RPM 844
>
>CO failed again, looked back to 2 years ago, results were very close,
>it is that O2 sensor again. I went to Canadian tire and bought a O2
>sensor socket on special for $18.00. Canadian tire wanted $87.00 for
>the O2, but no stock, needed special order. Called three other parts
>store price varies from $80.00, $125.00, $140.00 for the universal
>one, no connectors just 4 wires. Honda dealer wanted $250.00. The
>$80.00 one was make by NTK. So I took that one. No problem installing
>it.Took about 5 minus. The old one came out was the same make by NTK.
>Took it back for a retest, thinking it is going to pass. Wrong :{. It
>failed.
>
> 71 43 pass 200 43 pass
> 0.40 0.72 fail 1.00 0.08 pass
> 537 333 pass n/a n/a n/a
>RPM 1849 RPM 785
>
>Well it is not the O2 sensor this time .Time to do some tune up on
>the motor. Replaced spark plugs and rotor, dist cap looks good.
>Measured plug wire resistance good. Replaced PCV valve, replaced fuel
>filter, first time since new. Went to quick lube place, did a fuel
>injector clean. Took the car to the highway, drove at 120km at 3rd
>gear, not overdrive( 4 speed auto) for 30 minus. Took the car back for
>a retest. Failed again
>
> 71 62 pass 200 41 pass
> 0.4 0.73 fail 1 0.02 pass
> 537 342 pass
>RPM 1903 RPM 768
>
>Well I don't know what to do next. May be the CAT converter? The
>mechanic at the test center advised me that may be it is the EGR ports
>got plugged up, I need to drill the six access plugs out and use a
>steel wire to clean the passage deposits out. I never done anything
>like that or heard anything like that before. I have a Haynes menu, I
>don't recall anywhere in the book mentioning anything like that. So I
>let him do the work. Here is the results after the cleaning. I am in
>deep shits now
>
> 71 63 pass 200 46 pass
> 0.4 1.24 fail 1 0.03 pass
> 537 590 fail
>RPM 1936 RPM 799
>
>The car now failed both the NO and CO.The original CO% is now sky
>rocketed through the roof. The mechanic told me it needed a good run
>on the highway and bring it back next day for a retest. Ok, I took the
>car to Wasaga beach for a few hours of sun and fun, it's one and half
>hour drive. I needed a break from all this. Drove the car back from
>the beach straight to the test center. The mechanic told me might be
>still deposit in the passage and he would open up the plugs again and
>clean it again before the retest. Ok it's done again and failed again.
>
> 71 78 fail 200 58 pass
> 0.4 1.19 fail 1 0.03 pass
> 537 339 pass
>RPM 1939 RPM 764
>
>Now the car failed HC and CO. The mechanic told me, everything seems
>to be ok my car is in a very good condition, it should pass. He didn't
>think the CAT would cause the problem. He recommended to remove and
>clean the Throttle body and the intake plenum. I looked at the Hayes
>menu, this one I can do myself. So I removed the Throttle body and the
>plenum, used carb cleaner Spic and Span the whole thing to a mirror
>surface. Sprayed all the holes inside and cleaned the IAC valve and
>the screen, the screen had a lot of carbon on it. I missed this one
>over the years. I didn't know about the screen. I can't find this one
>in the Hayes. Bought two new gaskets from Honda, put everything
>together, took me about 5 hour's altogether, felt good and learned
>something new. The car started ok , but it idled on park at 1200 RPM
>after fully warmed up. I counted the idle speed screw before and after
>I took it out to clean it, it was full of carbon on the tip and inside
>the hole. It was at four and a half turns, I have to turn it 3 quarter
>turns clockwise to bring the RPM down to 770. Took the car out for a
>spin, didn't feel any different.
>Since I am not sure if it would pass the test and the CAT is 12 years
>old. I took it to the shop to replace the CAT for $207.00. I am
>thinking this time it is going to pass. Wrong
>
>HC 71 92 fail 200 354 pass
>CO 0.40 0.87 fail 1 0.08 pass
>NO 537 410 pass
>RPM 1790 RPM 844
>
>Well, the mechanic who changed my CAT told me since I did all this
>work,if it doesn't pass, he doesn't know what to do next either.
>
>At this point in time, I gave up and decided to take it to the Honda
>dealer for a diagnostic. The Honda mechanic came back and told me all
>the parts I changed are not Honda,(I know,all their parts are triple
>priced ) and the cleaning work that was done may be not good enough
>(I don't think so). He is going to repeat everything I did and charge
>me both my arms and my legs for it. I told him just do the repair work
>for the maximum allowed for the conditional pass and I would just junk
>the car in two years. I have no idea what to do next.
>
>Guess what, people, he changed the $80.00 O2 sensor that I bought on
>the very first day the car failed the CO test with a $250.00 Honda one
>and passed the emission test. The mechanic sez " I told you so ". Here
>is the pass results.
>
> 71 22 pass 200 17 pass
> 0.40 0.03 pass 1.00 0.01 pass
> 537 533 pass
>RPM 1882 RPM 883
>
>The HC and CO are very good with the new O2. I don't know why the NO
>is so close to the limit after all the works have been done? I don't
>have to worry about this in 2 years. But in the end, I have learned a
>lot and the moral of the story is that don't buy the cheapest part you
>can get. May be if I would have spend a bit more money on the mid
>range priced O2 sensor, I would of passed the test on the first retest
>and missed all the fun I had for the last seven days. I would of
>.......I know,the hind sight is always perfect 20/20.
>
>Sorry about the long post.Anyone care for a comment?

Yes, you have an amazing memory. I tested in Feb.and
my idle HC was close to failing (170 something) and the
C-Tire guy told me to put $10 of unleaded premium in it, take
it on the highway for 1/2 an hour and to change the air filter.
I don't thing I'll have my '88 HB in 2 years, but you're experience
proves that the all the variables in this cash-grab the
Drive-clean is only good for mechanics and the gov't at $40
a pop.