Honda Car Forum

bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
> About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car has
> been running reliably since until this morning. When I hit the
> starter if fires but will not run. I've checked the hot lead to the
> ignition and it shows 13V in both the start and run position so I
> don't think the ignition switch is the problem. We put a timing light
> on the spark plug wire and it fires, so I'm thinking it's the main
> relay BUT the fact that it fires when on start confuses me. In the
> previous failure it did not fire at all when trying to start. I'm
> going to give up on the relay and replace it, but are there any other
> suggestions?

My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between
the joining part.
I don't know if that solves the main relay problem or not.

TWo Q: Does main relay problme can shut the engine off while
driving?
Does main relay problem cause the check engine light to come
on while
driving?

leolee90@yahoo.com (Lee Leo) wrote in message news:<132cd020.0307102255.4453975c@posting.google. com>...
> bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
> > About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car has
>
> My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
> ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between


I just put in a new main relay and problem remains, fires on start dies on run.
Any other ideas?

Bob W.

I guess there is no check engine light or engine codes. Can you get
it to run at all? Even a little at idle? Or is it only running while
in the start position? As soon as you release the key back to the run
position from start is that when it dies? Do you know for sure you
don't have spark after cranking the engine? You said the timing light
fires, but even after you try starting it?

If this is true it sounds like an ignition switch if the car has
one. I'm not sure if the main relay does the same job as an ignition
switch. I know the main relay is responsible for the fuel pump
circuit. Is it also responsible for power to the ECU for ignition?

If the engine do have spark after the start I would guess fuel would
be the next thing to go after. If you pull a spark plug after trying
to start it you would have a little unburned fuel in the cylinder that
you would be able to smell on the plug after it out.

You need three things for very basic engine function. Correct
fuel/air mixture, ignition and compression. Compression failure is
the least likely unless something happened mechanically to the engine
that caused half (or more of) the cylinders to loose compression. It
would be pretty obvious something like severe overheating (melting),
running without any oil or some major internal failure (hole between
cylinders). You would have some horrible signs of this happening.


On 11 Jul 2003 11:54:18 -0700, bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote:

>leolee90@yahoo.com (Lee Leo) wrote in message news:<132cd020.0307102255.4453975c@posting.google. com>...
>> bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
>> > About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car has
>>
>> My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
>> ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between
>
>
>I just put in a new main relay and problem remains, fires on start dies on run.
>Any other ideas?
>
>Bob W.

On 11 Jul 2003 11:54:18 -0700, bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote:

>leolee90@yahoo.com (Lee Leo) wrote in message news:<132cd020.0307102255.4453975c@posting.google. com>...
>> bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
>> > About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car has
>>
>> My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
>> ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between
>
>
>I just put in a new main relay and problem remains, fires on start dies on run.
>Any other ideas?

After it's done it's fire and die, what happens if you continue trying to
start it - does it repeat the fire and die? I had an igniter go bad a few
months ago and it would fire and die - repeated attempts to start would not
fire. This was during Winter and I assume that it was flooded after the
initial start & die.

Unfortunately the car was away at college with my daughter so I had to rely
on the word of the local Acura dealer on the cause of the problem.
Igniters usually go completely out or work just fine but occasionally they
do odd things... possibly as the voltage goes up from the alternator
kicking in they go flakey.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Yes, it is most likely the ignition switch. My son has a '92 Accord
with 230,000 miles that had the same problem. Instead of the
expensive new switch, we simply used a relay and wired it to the wire
that is hot when in the run position. We found the fuse and contacts
are not sufficient to handle the ignition, thus the relay. A little
more trouble, but works fine.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:08:34 GMT, NomoreRGS <fishman@fish.net> wrote:

> I guess there is no check engine light or engine codes. Can you get
>it to run at all? Even a little at idle? Or is it only running while
>in the start position? As soon as you release the key back to the run
>position from start is that when it dies? Do you know for sure you
>don't have spark after cranking the engine? You said the timing light
>fires, but even after you try starting it?
>
> If this is true it sounds like an ignition switch if the car has
>one. I'm not sure if the main relay does the same job as an ignition
>switch. I know the main relay is responsible for the fuel pump
>circuit. Is it also responsible for power to the ECU for ignition?
>
> If the engine do have spark after the start I would guess fuel would
>be the next thing to go after. If you pull a spark plug after trying
>to start it you would have a little unburned fuel in the cylinder that
>you would be able to smell on the plug after it out.
>
> You need three things for very basic engine function. Correct
>fuel/air mixture, ignition and compression. Compression failure is
>the least likely unless something happened mechanically to the engine
>that caused half (or more of) the cylinders to loose compression. It
>would be pretty obvious something like severe overheating (melting),
>running without any oil or some major internal failure (hole between
>cylinders). You would have some horrible signs of this happening.
>
>
>On 11 Jul 2003 11:54:18 -0700, bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote:
>
>>leolee90@yahoo.com (Lee Leo) wrote in message news:<132cd020.0307102255.4453975c@posting.google. com>...
>>> bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
>>> > About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car has
>>>
>>> My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
>>> ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between
>>
>>
>>I just put in a new main relay and problem remains, fires on start dies on run.
>>Any other ideas?
>>
>>Bob W.

I don't suppose you recall any of the details of that operation? My '93
Accord with 227,000 miles just developed what sounds like the same problem.
It starts fine, but when the key is in the "run" position, car dies. None of
the usual dash lights or indicators stay on. Looking through the Haynes
manual, the procedure for replacing the ignition switch might be a bit much
for me - with the air bag, and having to remove the steering wheel. But I
certainly can't afford the labor dollars to have a shop do it.

Thanks in advance,

Brent


"Gene Morrow" <emorrow1@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a30fhvo8ms5vk0kkfetcoveubvap22vjhv@4ax.com...
> Yes, it is most likely the ignition switch. My son has a '92 Accord
> with 230,000 miles that had the same problem. Instead of the
> expensive new switch, we simply used a relay and wired it to the wire
> that is hot when in the run position. We found the fuse and contacts
> are not sufficient to handle the ignition, thus the relay. A little
> more trouble, but works fine.
>
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:08:34 GMT, NomoreRGS <fishman@fish.net> wrote:
>
> > I guess there is no check engine light or engine codes. Can you get
> >it to run at all? Even a little at idle? Or is it only running while
> >in the start position? As soon as you release the key back to the run
> >position from start is that when it dies? Do you know for sure you
> >don't have spark after cranking the engine? You said the timing light
> >fires, but even after you try starting it?
> >
> > If this is true it sounds like an ignition switch if the car has
> >one. I'm not sure if the main relay does the same job as an ignition
> >switch. I know the main relay is responsible for the fuel pump
> >circuit. Is it also responsible for power to the ECU for ignition?
> >
> > If the engine do have spark after the start I would guess fuel would
> >be the next thing to go after. If you pull a spark plug after trying
> >to start it you would have a little unburned fuel in the cylinder that
> >you would be able to smell on the plug after it out.
> >
> > You need three things for very basic engine function. Correct
> >fuel/air mixture, ignition and compression. Compression failure is
> >the least likely unless something happened mechanically to the engine
> >that caused half (or more of) the cylinders to loose compression. It
> >would be pretty obvious something like severe overheating (melting),
> >running without any oil or some major internal failure (hole between
> >cylinders). You would have some horrible signs of this happening.
> >
> >
> >On 11 Jul 2003 11:54:18 -0700, bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote:
> >
> >>leolee90@yahoo.com (Lee Leo) wrote in message
news:<132cd020.0307102255.4453975c@posting.google. com>...
> >>> bobwarasila@lswpub.com (Bob W) wrote in message
news:<c4694ee7.0307080823.6c467ffe@posting.google. com>...
> >>> > About two weeks ago I did the main relay resolder fix and the car
has
> >>>
> >>> My main relay is the problem so I did the resolder just three days
> >>> ago. I did not find any crack. I just resoldered it specially between
> >>
> >>
> >>I just put in a new main relay and problem remains, fires on start dies
on run.
> >>Any other ideas?
> >>
> >>Bob W.
>

All,

This just happened to me also (1991 Accord DX, 153k miles). I noticed
that the car is fine while the key stays in the "Start" position (the
engine catches), but the engine is killed when the key returns to "On"
position, which is the norm for driving. To make a long story short,
I changed the Main Relay to no avail, but have since tracked down and
replaced the "Steering Switch" (35130-SM4-305 for my model). This
switch is essentially the ignition switch that sits on the left side
of the steering column. Replacement work is straight forward and took
about 20 minutes if you have the part in hand. Simply remove the top
and bottom covers off of the steering column (5 screws total), and
find the white pastic switch on the left (It almost looks like a
bearing housing). Replace this and your car should work like a charm
again.

I live in the Bay Area, California, so purchasing from San Leandro
Honda (slhondaparts.com) was a cinch. I ordered online and picked up
in store, therwise you'll need to pay for shipping and taxes. The
cost of the part is $50, and I got a similar quote from hparts.com,
when they were still in business.

Good Luck!

So you didn't have to replace the actual key cylinder, just the electrical
connector from the key cylinder to the fuse box?

Brent

"ub dumass" <ubdumass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8cbecfe5.0405041501.1a12b98b@posting.google.c om...
> All,
>
> This just happened to me also (1991 Accord DX, 153k miles). I noticed
> that the car is fine while the key stays in the "Start" position (the
> engine catches), but the engine is killed when the key returns to "On"
> position, which is the norm for driving. To make a long story short,
> I changed the Main Relay to no avail, but have since tracked down and
> replaced the "Steering Switch" (35130-SM4-305 for my model). This
> switch is essentially the ignition switch that sits on the left side
> of the steering column. Replacement work is straight forward and took
> about 20 minutes if you have the part in hand. Simply remove the top
> and bottom covers off of the steering column (5 screws total), and
> find the white pastic switch on the left (It almost looks like a
> bearing housing). Replace this and your car should work like a charm
> again.
>
> I live in the Bay Area, California, so purchasing from San Leandro
> Honda (slhondaparts.com) was a cinch. I ordered online and picked up
> in store, therwise you'll need to pay for shipping and taxes. The
> cost of the part is $50, and I got a similar quote from hparts.com,
> when they were still in business.
>
> Good Luck!

> So you didn't have to replace the actual key cylinder, just the electrical
> connector from the key cylinder to the fuse box?

correct. no messing with locks.

To back up Mike's answer: That's correct, no need to replace the key
cylinder, just replace the switch itself.

One way to tell whether your problem is the ignition switch or the
main relay...

If your car fires and stays on while you hold the key in between
"Start" and "On" states, then you have the ignition switch problem.
If it doesn't fire at all, perhaps the fuel pump is not engaging and
would indicate the main switch problem. Do a search in Google and
you'll find a lot of threads on the topic of "Main Relay".