Honda Car Forum

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote
> What's stopping you buying a Merc/Audi/Honda etc in the USA? A good used
> one is still more fun that the cars you complain about.

Yeah... buy an Audi and keep it a few years then come back and tell us how
much better - and more reliable- European cars are....
Just like a Renault, they feel good to drive when they are new, but you
better find a fan/mechanic.

I LOVE reading Car and Driver when every new Audi model comes out.. "How
fantastic, they are..." But somehow, there's just not many stay on the
road.

OK, I'll rephrase that to

"What's stopping you...Merc or BMW...
;-)

I have to tell you that my 10-year old 70 000-mile 190 E feels fine. Yes,
it's had some repairs but it still feels good.

In the 80s I had a W124 230 E that lasted 6 years and 120 000 miles. My
company forced me to get rid of it and get a new car, as it was considered
too old. As funds were restricted I had the 190 which I took with me when I
left the company some years ago.

DAS
--
---
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
---
"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:vfndpga7sb3h59@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote
> > What's stopping you buying a Merc/Audi/Honda etc in the USA? A good
used
> > one is still more fun that the cars you complain about.
>
> Yeah... buy an Audi and keep it a few years then come back and tell us how
> much better - and more reliable- European cars are....
> Just like a Renault, they feel good to drive when they are new, but you
> better find a fan/mechanic.
>
> I LOVE reading Car and Driver when every new Audi model comes out.. "How
> fantastic, they are..." But somehow, there's just not many stay on the
> road.
>
>
>
>

The 190 will not deteriorate, just keep it maintained, drive it as much as
you can, and if possible keep it out of the elements when not driving it for
protracted periods of time. Is the 190-engine the 4, or the in line 6.. .,
the inline 6 will last forever.
The parts for the imports, here in the US.. cost quite a bit more as they
get older, because they are lower volume, and some times you have to wait
for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to be
higher for the imports, than for the domestics.

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3efc6cf5$0$10625$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com ...
> I agree that 70 000 miles in 10 years is extremely little. Most of the
> mileage was incurred at the beginning of the car's life when my commute
> alone added 200 miles per week.
>
> Now I only do about 6 000 miles a year in my own car and the 190 is now
our
> second car, getting only several miles a week.
>
> I am worried it will deteriorate fast and I keep asking my wife to drive
the
> 'pretty way' when she goes on an errand.
>
> Overall average mileage in the UK is about 12 000 I believe, but Merc
owners
> tend to put away higher mileages. Statistics I saw some years ago in
> Germany showed that S-Class did lots in a year.
>
> I don't think I would agree that maintenance is significantly higher than
of
> a similarly-sized Ford (in Europe). Certainly dealers' houlry labour
rates
> are much the same across the brands but I suppose it depends on how many
> hours are allocated to a job. And then it depends how often parts fail.
An
> old Merc feels much like a new one, as opposed to what you said about Audi
> and what I am sure applies to other brands.
>
> DAS
> --
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "V.B. Mercon" <transmission@ ford@fail> wrote in message
> news:u7GcnarUFoxk12GjXTWJhg@comcast.com...
> > 70,000 miles in 10 years....? that cars is still practically new...
Last
> > year I drove over 33,000 miles taking the kids to school, games, to
> events,
> > to visit friends, plus work..Since the kids were born the miles have
been
> > going up each year. When you have kids, you become a part of the car
pool,
> > like it or not. That alone tells you a large car/van/wagon is needed.
Even
> > used, a large Merc. or BMW is fairly expensive, to own. The acquisition
> > might be inexpensive, but insurance, maintenance and repairs does become
> > costly. Now as a matter of convenience for size and miles driven, plus
> the
> > fact that I can do the repairs myself, obtain spare parts just about
> > anywhere, big saving there, I stick with Ford. Lastly, but not
least..my
> > complaints, which goes for all car companies is usually about bad
> > engineering and design, and cost cutters who think they know what
> consumers
> > want best. Case in point, like Ford not having Rear Disc Brakes as an
> option
> > on the 2000 to 2003 Big Taurus Sedan, despite the fact that they have
> > increase the performance of the engines. When you are carrying 4 big
kids
> > and their gear, you can feel the difference between front disc/rear
drums
> > and four wheel disc brakes. Some guys say the rear drums save you money
on
> a
> > new car, but my question to them is .." what is the safety of my family
> > worth..." Surely a lot more that the supposedly $1200 saved by accepting
> > rear drums instead of disc. Makes you wonder if they are in touch with
> > reality any at all.
> >
> > "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:3efc2206$0$963$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> > > OK, I'll rephrase that to
> > >
> > > "What's stopping you...Merc or BMW...
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > I have to tell you that my 10-year old 70 000-mile 190 E feels fine.
> Yes,
> > > it's had some repairs but it still feels good.
> > >
> > > In the 80s I had a W124 230 E that lasted 6 years and 120 000 miles.
My
> > > company forced me to get rid of it and get a new car, as it was
> considered
> > > too old. As funds were restricted I had the 190 which I took with me
> when
> > I
> > > left the company some years ago.
> > >
> > > DAS
> > > --
> > > ---
> > > NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> > > ---
> > > "Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
> > > news:vfndpga7sb3h59@corp.supernews.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote
> > > > > What's stopping you buying a Merc/Audi/Honda etc in the USA? A
good
> > > used
> > > > > one is still more fun that the cars you complain about.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah... buy an Audi and keep it a few years then come back and tell
us
> > how
> > > > much better - and more reliable- European cars are....
> > > > Just like a Renault, they feel good to drive when they are new, but
> you
> > > > better find a fan/mechanic.
> > > >
> > > > I LOVE reading Car and Driver when every new Audi model comes out..
> "How
> > > > fantastic, they are..." But somehow, there's just not many stay on
> the
> > > > road.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

"V.B. Mercon" <transmission@ ford@fail> wrote in message
news:_ACdnaK35tB8SWGjXTWJig@comcast.com...
> The 190 will not deteriorate, just keep it maintained, drive it as much as
> you can, and if possible keep it out of the elements when not driving it
for
> protracted periods of time. Is the 190-engine the 4, or the in line 6.. .,
> the inline 6 will last forever.
> The parts for the imports, here in the US.. cost quite a bit more as they
> get older, because they are lower volume, and some times you have to wait
> for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to be
> higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
>
> "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3efc6cf5$0$10625$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com ...
> > I agree that 70 000 miles in 10 years is extremely little. Most of the
> > mileage was incurred at the beginning of the car's life when my commute
> > alone added 200 miles per week.
> >
> > Now I only do about 6 000 miles a year in my own car and the 190 is now
> our
> > second car, getting only several miles a week.
> >
> > I am worried it will deteriorate fast and I keep asking my wife to drive
> the
> > 'pretty way' when she goes on an errand.
> >
> > Overall average mileage in the UK is about 12 000 I believe, but Merc
> owners
> > tend to put away higher mileages.

I'm in the UK, I drive a 1985 Golf GTi, and it's on 240000 miles and
counting,..
it drives like it's done about 70000 which suits me cos thats when they
start to actually go well
Still no rattles, squeaks or bits falling off, and everything (except the
trip computer) still works fine.
It's not pampered or treated any better than any other car I've owned.. it's
just quick, good on fuel, handles well, and crazily reliable.. cheap to
maintain as well, at 240000 miles I just chuck pattern parts on it and it
seems ok..

I also had an W123 series Merc 280TE, that did 200000 miles without any real
hassle..

My 1970 Buick Riviera GS on the other hand.... 74000 miles and it's
knackered. To add insult to injury, it's just cracked the block right across
the middle of the V.

Doubt this helps

Pete M

V.B. Mercon wrote:


> for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to be
> higher for the imports, than for the domestics.


I have it around here somewhere but I did a comparison maybe 8 years ago
and standard flat rate labor allowances were significantly higher for
foreign cars. Also on bodies more parts to do the same thing. All adds
up.

It has a lot to do with the mentality of people that buy foreign
cars. Dealers know that when they buy a new vehicle they are
willing ot pay 25 to 30 percent more to drive them home than the
vehicles of domestic manufactures competing models, since they
perceive foreign vehicles in the same class to be 'better.' Why
not charge them a higher labor rate as well? When I was still in
retail, one of our stores sold Ford, Toyota and MB. The hourly
labor rate we charged for Toyota was $9 more than Ford and $18
more for MB. The dealership had three stores that occupied one
city block with a central service area in the next block, using
the SAME technicians trained to work on all three brands. Parts
prices were significantly higher, as well, than those of
domestics.



mike hunt



brad9876 wrote:
>
> V.B. Mercon wrote:
>
> > for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to be
> > higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
>
> I have it around here somewhere but I did a comparison maybe 8 years ago
> and standard flat rate labor allowances were significantly higher for
> foreign cars. Also on bodies more parts to do the same thing. All adds
> up.

Driving the car until it warms up every once in a while is a good idea.
Remember also that eventhough there is not much driving you still need to
pay attention to the fluids. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it will pick up
moisture, drive or not. Get in the habit of completely flushing the brake
lines and master cylinder every two years or less if you are in a wet
climate. If the car does sit for protracted periods of time, consider using
some fuel stabilizer. Use really good quality engine oil during oil and
filter changes. I have seen unopened engine oil separate in storage after a
long time. I am not sure what happens in an engine as my car never sit still
very long, except when I go on vacation. And then I usually get an oil
change just before I go. Engine coolant gets progresively acidic with use.
So at the minimum, make sure the PH of the coolant does not drop below 8.0.
7.0 is neutral, and anything below that is acidic. Can't say much about the
transmission fluid, except make sure it does not run low at anytime. They
always say check when the car is fully warmed up. However I came up with a
way to check if the level is ok when cold before I start the car. When the
car was newer, with everything running great, I check the car in the evening
before I turn in for the night. The next morning when the car is cold and
engine off, I check the trans. fluid level again. I now etch a mark on the
dip stick with a file. Now I have a mark for proper fluid level, cold or
hot.
Comes in handy when I drop the pan and change the trans. filter and fluid.

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3efd748f$0$960$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> My old Merc is the 1997 cc 190E 4-cyl. I am only concerned at the effect
of
> the low mileage on the engine. I remind my wife to drive it till at least
> the indicated operating temp is reached.
>
> DAS
> --
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "Pete M" <pete.murray@blueMOONYOUSAWMESTANDINGALOOOOONEyond er.co.uk> wrote
> in message news:sI4La.817$r77.325@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "V.B. Mercon" <transmission@ ford@fail> wrote in message
> > news:_ACdnaK35tB8SWGjXTWJig@comcast.com...
> > > The 190 will not deteriorate, just keep it maintained, drive it as
much
> as
> > > you can, and if possible keep it out of the elements when not driving
it
> > for
> > > protracted periods of time. Is the 190-engine the 4, or the in line
6..
> .,
> > > the inline 6 will last forever.
> > > The parts for the imports, here in the US.. cost quite a bit more as
> they
> > > get older, because they are lower volume, and some times you have to
> wait
> > > for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to
be
> > > higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
> > >
> > > "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:3efc6cf5$0$10625$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com ...
> > > > I agree that 70 000 miles in 10 years is extremely little. Most of
> the
> > > > mileage was incurred at the beginning of the car's life when my
> commute
> > > > alone added 200 miles per week.
> > > >
> > > > Now I only do about 6 000 miles a year in my own car and the 190 is
> now
> > > our
> > > > second car, getting only several miles a week.
> > > >
> > > > I am worried it will deteriorate fast and I keep asking my wife to
> drive
> > > the
> > > > 'pretty way' when she goes on an errand.
> > > >
> > > > Overall average mileage in the UK is about 12 000 I believe, but
Merc
> > > owners
> > > > tend to put away higher mileages.
> >
> > I'm in the UK, I drive a 1985 Golf GTi, and it's on 240000 miles and
> > counting,..
> > it drives like it's done about 70000 which suits me cos thats when they
> > start to actually go well
> > Still no rattles, squeaks or bits falling off, and everything (except
the
> > trip computer) still works fine.
> > It's not pampered or treated any better than any other car I've owned..
> it's
> > just quick, good on fuel, handles well, and crazily reliable.. cheap to
> > maintain as well, at 240000 miles I just chuck pattern parts on it and
it
> > seems ok..
> >
> > I also had an W123 series Merc 280TE, that did 200000 miles without any
> real
> > hassle..
> >
> > My 1970 Buick Riviera GS on the other hand.... 74000 miles and it's
> > knackered. To add insult to injury, it's just cracked the block right
> across
> > the middle of the V.
> >
> > Doubt this helps
> >
> > Pete M
> >
> >
>
>

I suspected you were weird, but now you reveal that you are in with the
crooked too.
What should anyone care if a guy or a gal wants to spend their last dime on
any vehicle. What if they want to buy a $60,000 or $70,000 Escalade or
Navigator, or BMW or Mercedes Benz. It is their money. Don't be envious.
They did not steal it from you. Treat them fairly, do not discriminate, it
is illegal and people go to jail when caught and convicted. Remember this,
no one gets away forever.

<mayor2@ptdprolog.net> wrote in message
news:3EFDE80F.5F56D5E5@ptdprolog.net...
> It has a lot to do with the mentality of people that buy foreign
> cars. Dealers know that when they buy a new vehicle they are
> willing ot pay 25 to 30 percent more to drive them home than the
> vehicles of domestic manufactures competing models, since they
> perceive foreign vehicles in the same class to be 'better.' Why
> not charge them a higher labor rate as well? When I was still in
> retail, one of our stores sold Ford, Toyota and MB. The hourly
> labor rate we charged for Toyota was $9 more than Ford and $18
> more for MB. The dealership had three stores that occupied one
> city block with a central service area in the next block, using
> the SAME technicians trained to work on all three brands. Parts
> prices were significantly higher, as well, than those of
> domestics.
>
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> brad9876 wrote:
> >
> > V.B. Mercon wrote:
> >
> > > for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to
be
> > > higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
> >
> > I have it around here somewhere but I did a comparison maybe 8 years ago
> > and standard flat rate labor allowances were significantly higher for
> > foreign cars. Also on bodies more parts to do the same thing. All adds
> > up.

Thanks for the tips. Am keeping them. I do specify synthetic oil.

DAS
--
---
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
---
"V.B. Mercon" <transmission@ ford@fail> wrote in message
newsTOdnZKv8unt8mOjXTWJjA@comcast.com...
> Driving the car until it warms up every once in a while is a good idea.
> Remember also that eventhough there is not much driving you still need to
> pay attention to the fluids. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it will pick up
> moisture, drive or not. Get in the habit of completely flushing the brake
> lines and master cylinder every two years or less if you are in a wet
> climate. If the car does sit for protracted periods of time, consider
using
> some fuel stabilizer. Use really good quality engine oil during oil and
> filter changes. I have seen unopened engine oil separate in storage after
a
> long time. I am not sure what happens in an engine as my car never sit
still
> very long, except when I go on vacation. And then I usually get an oil
> change just before I go. Engine coolant gets progresively acidic with use.
> So at the minimum, make sure the PH of the coolant does not drop below
8.0.
> 7.0 is neutral, and anything below that is acidic. Can't say much about
the
> transmission fluid, except make sure it does not run low at anytime. They
> always say check when the car is fully warmed up. However I came up with a
> way to check if the level is ok when cold before I start the car. When the
> car was newer, with everything running great, I check the car in the
evening
> before I turn in for the night. The next morning when the car is cold and
> engine off, I check the trans. fluid level again. I now etch a mark on the
> dip stick with a file. Now I have a mark for proper fluid level, cold or
> hot.
> Comes in handy when I drop the pan and change the trans. filter and fluid.
>
> "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3efd748f$0$960$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> > My old Merc is the 1997 cc 190E 4-cyl. I am only concerned at the
effect
> of
> > the low mileage on the engine. I remind my wife to drive it till at
least
> > the indicated operating temp is reached.
> >
> > DAS
> > --
> > ---
> > NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> > ---
> > "Pete M" <pete.murray@blueMOONYOUSAWMESTANDINGALOOOOONEyond er.co.uk>
wrote
> > in message news:sI4La.817$r77.325@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "V.B. Mercon" <transmission@ ford@fail> wrote in message
> > > news:_ACdnaK35tB8SWGjXTWJig@comcast.com...
> > > > The 190 will not deteriorate, just keep it maintained, drive it as
> much
> > as
> > > > you can, and if possible keep it out of the elements when not
driving
> it
> > > for
> > > > protracted periods of time. Is the 190-engine the 4, or the in line
> 6..
> > .,
> > > > the inline 6 will last forever.
> > > > The parts for the imports, here in the US.. cost quite a bit more as
> > they
> > > > get older, because they are lower volume, and some times you have to
> > wait
> > > > for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to
> be
> > > > higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
> > > >
> > > > "Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > > news:3efc6cf5$0$10625$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com ...
> > > > > I agree that 70 000 miles in 10 years is extremely little. Most
of
> > the
> > > > > mileage was incurred at the beginning of the car's life when my
> > commute
> > > > > alone added 200 miles per week.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I only do about 6 000 miles a year in my own car and the 190
is
> > now
> > > > our
> > > > > second car, getting only several miles a week.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am worried it will deteriorate fast and I keep asking my wife to
> > drive
> > > > the
> > > > > 'pretty way' when she goes on an errand.
> > > > >
> > > > > Overall average mileage in the UK is about 12 000 I believe, but
> Merc
> > > > owners
> > > > > tend to put away higher mileages.
> > >
> > > I'm in the UK, I drive a 1985 Golf GTi, and it's on 240000 miles and
> > > counting,..
> > > it drives like it's done about 70000 which suits me cos thats when
they
> > > start to actually go well
> > > Still no rattles, squeaks or bits falling off, and everything (except
> the
> > > trip computer) still works fine.
> > > It's not pampered or treated any better than any other car I've
owned..
> > it's
> > > just quick, good on fuel, handles well, and crazily reliable.. cheap
to
> > > maintain as well, at 240000 miles I just chuck pattern parts on it and
> it
> > > seems ok..
> > >
> > > I also had an W123 series Merc 280TE, that did 200000 miles without
any
> > real
> > > hassle..
> > >
> > > My 1970 Buick Riviera GS on the other hand.... 74000 miles and it's
> > > knackered. To add insult to injury, it's just cracked the block right
> > across
> > > the middle of the V.
> > >
> > > Doubt this helps
> > >
> > > Pete M
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

I had nothing to do with setting the shop rate. I was Group
Sales Manager. I was hardly a crook, often we pointed out
to a customer that couldn't afford the monthly payment that
we could sell them a Ford that was roomer, had a V6 rather
than a 4 cy, and much more equipment then the Toyota they
were considering. We earned a lot less profit on the Fords
but at least we didn't loose the sale for the dealership.

By the way although some of those you mention cost that
much the navigator averages $10,000 less.


mike hunt


Joe Ford wrote:
>
> I suspected you were weird, but now you reveal that you are in with the
> crooked too.
> What should anyone care if a guy or a gal wants to spend their last dime on
> any vehicle. What if they want to buy a $60,000 or $70,000 Escalade or
> Navigator, or BMW or Mercedes Benz. It is their money. Don't be envious.
> They did not steal it from you. Treat them fairly, do not discriminate, it
> is illegal and people go to jail when caught and convicted. Remember this,
> no one gets away forever.
>
> <mayor2@ptdprolog.net> wrote in message
> news:3EFDE80F.5F56D5E5@ptdprolog.net...
> > It has a lot to do with the mentality of people that buy foreign
> > cars. Dealers know that when they buy a new vehicle they are
> > willing ot pay 25 to 30 percent more to drive them home than the
> > vehicles of domestic manufactures competing models, since they
> > perceive foreign vehicles in the same class to be 'better.' Why
> > not charge them a higher labor rate as well? When I was still in
> > retail, one of our stores sold Ford, Toyota and MB. The hourly
> > labor rate we charged for Toyota was $9 more than Ford and $18
> > more for MB. The dealership had three stores that occupied one
> > city block with a central service area in the next block, using
> > the SAME technicians trained to work on all three brands. Parts
> > prices were significantly higher, as well, than those of
> > domestics.
> >
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
> >
> >
> >
> > brad9876 wrote:
> > >
> > > V.B. Mercon wrote:
> > >
> > > > for the parts to come from the home country. The labor rate tends to
> be
> > > > higher for the imports, than for the domestics.
> > >
> > > I have it around here somewhere but I did a comparison maybe 8 years ago
> > > and standard flat rate labor allowances were significantly higher for
> > > foreign cars. Also on bodies more parts to do the same thing. All adds
> > > up.