Honda Car Forum

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:14:15 +0100, "Alexander S. Wood"
<alec_wood@dont.spam.me.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Yep, USA Cavalier is pretty much an Astra in fancy dress.

Hardly - they're completely different cars.

>Not like that wonderful stalwart of the rep-world we enjoyed (endured?) over
>here.
>
>It's not just the USA's motoring companies that let down their home market
>though. I've got a mate up the road running a grey-import business, mostly
>Jap off-roaders, L200 pickups, Pajeros etc and while the build quality of
>these is spot-on, the "bread and butter" cars fare much less well. For
>example, the trim fit and finish on the Mazda Eunos roadsters he brought in
>was garbage compared to the MX-5 sold here, an identical car from the same
>company. Similar story with two big Honda's.

What? You're saying the build quality of the JP cars was inferior to the
UK built? That'd be a supreme irony, considering what happened to the
indigenous UK auto industry and the reasons thereof. Ohh... and which "big
Hondas"? Does Honda make any big cars in the U.K.? In the U.S. we get
both JP and UK builds of the CR-V - I haven't compared personally but I
haven't heard anything in the Honda NG to indicate a preference for the UK
one.

>--
>Alec Wood M1BNK
>Teesside UK
>
>Interested in Ham Radio....have a look at www.ukradioamateur.org
>
>"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3ef34d24$0$10624$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.co m...
>> A little point of interest. There was a Cavalier in Europe, from
>> Vauxhall(GB), the British sister of GM-owned Opel. This car was replaced
>by
>> the Vauxhall and Opel Vectra, a size above the Astra. Maybe the US
>Cavalier
>> is smaller than the Vectra.
>>
>> Still, you point still stands
>> --
>> ---
>> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
>> ---
>> "Elias Rocha" <eliasrd@morespam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%bGIa.484$Za.213496@nn1-lan0.avantel.net.mx...
>> > True, I can see the diference every day, with the sister´s chevy
>cavalier
>> > and my astra, both cars are for the same segment (compact cars), and
>from
>> > the same company, but the astra has much better quality than the
>cavalier.
>> >
>> > Elias Rocha
>> .............................
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:3ef54766.71255491@news.tellurian.com...

>
> What? You're saying the build quality of the JP cars was inferior to the
> UK built? That'd be a supreme irony, considering what happened to the
> indigenous UK auto industry and the reasons thereof. Ohh... and which
"big
> Hondas"? Does Honda make any big cars in the U.K.? In the U.S. we get
> both JP and UK builds of the CR-V - I haven't compared personally but I
> haven't heard anything in the Honda NG to indicate a preference for the UK
> one.
>

No, what I'm saying is that the cars built for export by the Jap auto
industry are of superior build quality to those supplied to their domestic
market, I don't know where each and every one has been built. I see lots of
imports, not nearly as many UK cars. My mate Dave runs an import business
dealing in low-mileage second hand Jap cars. As a sort of second job, I do
any electrics and other remedial work required before sale. The 4x4's all
seem like top quality cars, but the "car" cars seem much less well screwed
together, less well aligned etc. Those I have seen sold new in this country
all seem to be of exemplary build quality.

There may be a good reason for this. Of the cars brought in as second-hand
imports here, the average mileage is less than 10,000Km (7,000 miles approx)
per year.Average mileage in the UK is about 12k/year, in the US probably
higher still. Maybe the cars in Japan lead a gentler life and don't need to
be so tightly screwed together. Maybe not, who knows?

Agree or not is up to you, I just say what I see, which at the moment is
only about a dozen "new" Jap imports a week. Maybe Dave's unlucky and just
buys the rubbish ones.

The big Honda here is the Legend, dunno what it's sold as in the US. "Big"
is a relative term you understand - here a 1600cc engine is pretty average,
which makes the Legend's 3L V6 pretty "big", over there you would probably
laugh if your lawnmower salesman offered you less than 2L (with a turbo).

Not just the Jap manufacturers either, you'll hear it said of many that they
neglect their home market - Indeed one of the earlier responders to this
thread levelled the same charge against the US auto industry, but we only
see the more outrageous end of the US auto production so I can't really
comment on that one.

--
Alec Wood M1BNK
Teesside UK

Interested in Ham Radio....have a look at www.ukradioamateur.org

"S.E.W" <reallysad@ford.com> wrote in message
news:VwKdnQDhZ_8bi2ujXTWJjQ@comcast.com...
>
> Honda Big car, the Honda Legend in the UK is the same as the Acura
> Legend-3.2L, and the Newer Acura RL-3.5L in the USA.
> Honda came up with a "New" division to market their "Upscale" cars in
North
> America...Smarts buggers..! Make more money whichever way they can.
>
Like Toyota did with Lexus. They were genuinely a breed apart from your
average Toyota though, can the same be said of Acura? We don't see them over
here - yet.

--
Alec Wood M1BNK
Teesside UK

Interested in Ham Radio....have a look at www.ukradioamateur.org

Maybe the low milage Japanese cars that get to the U.K. do so because
the Japanese are no fools and would just assume get the Monday morning
lemons out of the country where they will no longer be their problem?
Just a thought.

Best,

Phil Sharkey

"Phil Sharkey" <phsharkey@netscape.net> wrote
> Maybe the low milage Japanese cars that get to the U.K. do so because
> the Japanese are no fools and would just assume get the Monday morning
> lemons out of the country where they will no longer be their problem?
> Just a thought.

I do know that the inspection requirements for continued licensing of cars
in Japan is extremely onerous. It tends to make consumers there buy new
cars often rather than spend a lot on maintenance... Also, there are not
many
places to drive in Japan (nor would I want to drive there, especially in the
cities.)

Floyd

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:41:05 +0100, "Alexander S. Wood"
<alec_wood@dont.spam.me.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
>"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
>news:3ef54766.71255491@news.tellurian.com...
>
>>
>> What? You're saying the build quality of the JP cars was inferior to the
>> UK built? That'd be a supreme irony, considering what happened to the
>> indigenous UK auto industry and the reasons thereof. Ohh... and which
>"big
>> Hondas"? Does Honda make any big cars in the U.K.? In the U.S. we get
>> both JP and UK builds of the CR-V - I haven't compared personally but I
>> haven't heard anything in the Honda NG to indicate a preference for the UK
>> one.
>>
>
>No, what I'm saying is that the cars built for export by the Jap auto
>industry are of superior build quality to those supplied to their domestic
>market, I don't know where each and every one has been built. I see lots of
>imports, not nearly as many UK cars. My mate Dave runs an import business
>dealing in low-mileage second hand Jap cars. As a sort of second job, I do
>any electrics and other remedial work required before sale. The 4x4's all
>seem like top quality cars, but the "car" cars seem much less well screwed
>together, less well aligned etc. Those I have seen sold new in this country
>all seem to be of exemplary build quality.

Interesting info - I hope all the potential grey import buyers in the UK
are reading your post.:-) I've seen where Honda UK was warning that many
of those were actually stolen, in Japan, for the "purpose".

>There may be a good reason for this. Of the cars brought in as second-hand
>imports here, the average mileage is less than 10,000Km (7,000 miles approx)
>per year.Average mileage in the UK is about 12k/year, in the US probably
>higher still. Maybe the cars in Japan lead a gentler life and don't need to
>be so tightly screwed together. Maybe not, who knows?

I wonder if it could be that the cars which make it to the grey export from
Japan are "damaged goods" for whatever reason: refurbished salvage jobs,
owner-abused/fixed-up or as someone else suggested the odd lemon - IOW the
JP owner dumped it because he was pissed with it. Doesn't explain, of
course, why the SUVs seem to have better quality and possibly Dave would be
able to recognize a salvage job???

>Agree or not is up to you, I just say what I see, which at the moment is
>only about a dozen "new" Jap imports a week. Maybe Dave's unlucky and just
>buys the rubbish ones.

I hear there's lots of this importing of JP 2nd hand cars to Australia and
especialy New Zealand. It'd be interesting to hear if they see a similar
pattern.

>The big Honda here is the Legend, dunno what it's sold as in the US. "Big"
>is a relative term you understand - here a 1600cc engine is pretty average,
>which makes the Legend's 3L V6 pretty "big", over there you would probably
>laugh if your lawnmower salesman offered you less than 2L (with a turbo).

The Legend used to be sold here as the Acura Legend and is now called the
Acura TL IIRC. More recently (1994 ?) Honda sells Accords with 3L V6s...
but we're not all grunt fans here.:-) Personally I preferred the 2.3L
4-cyl Accords and detest auto-trans. I even prefer push lawnmowers over
the self-propelled jobs - then again, manicured lawns don't interest me
either.:-)

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:14:34 -0700, "fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com>
wrote:

>"Alexander S. Wood" <alec_wood@dont.spam.me.ntlworld.com> wrote
>> "S.E.W" <reallysad@ford.com> wrote
>> > Honda Big car, the Honda Legend in the UK is the same as the Acura
>> > Legend-3.2L, and the Newer Acura RL-3.5L in the USA.
>> > Honda came up with a "New" division to market their "Upscale" cars in
>> North
>> > America...Smarts buggers..! Make more money whichever way they can.
>> >
>> Like Toyota did with Lexus. They were genuinely a breed apart from your
>> average Toyota though, can the same be said of Acura? We don't see them
>over
>> here - yet.
>
>You see some of the "Acura" cars over there in UK/Europe. For instance,
>the Acura TSX that is just going on sale over here in the US is actually the
>Honda Accord sold in every country but the US. The US's Accord is
>specific to our market and is bigger than the "world" accord. I believe
>that
>the Acura RSX is also sold in UK/Europe as a Honda.

The previous Integra was available intermittently in UK/Europe... I believe
in Type R form only latterly. AFAIK the new RSX/Integra has not made it to
Europe/UK yet. Honda seems to want to fill that slot with the UK produced
Civic Type R for the moment.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

"Alexander S. Wood" <alec_wood@dont.spam.me.ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<7TlJa.777$gT6.142581@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>...

>what I'm saying is that the cars built for export by the Jap auto
>industry are of superior build quality to those supplied to their
>domestic market, I don't know where each and every one has been
>built. I see lots of imports, not nearly as many UK cars. My mate
>Dave runs an import business dealing in low-mileage second hand
>Jap cars.

>Not just the Jap manufacturers either, you'll hear it said of many
>that they neglect their home market -

Generally, nations export what the do best and import what they do
worst, but it's false that the worst samples of any car model are kept
in the domestic market and the best exported because it's impractical
to sort them by quality (you don't rely upon inspections to check
quality). But Japan has made odd cars sold only in Japan because
nobody else would want them, some of them Suzukis.

Ever seen a Cappucino?

A two-seater that fits into a pocket, sold in the UK.

DAS
--
---
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
---
"R. Anton Rave" <rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
news:2725e958.0306230111.2a575ad4@posting.google.c om...
> "Alexander S. Wood" <alec_wood@dont.spam.me.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:<7TlJa.777$gT6.142581@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>...
>
> >what I'm saying is that the cars built for export by the Jap auto
> >industry are of superior build quality to those supplied to their
> >domestic market, I don't know where each and every one has been
> >built. I see lots of imports, not nearly as many UK cars. My mate
> >Dave runs an import business dealing in low-mileage second hand
> >Jap cars.
>
> >Not just the Jap manufacturers either, you'll hear it said of many
> >that they neglect their home market -
>
> Generally, nations export what the do best and import what they do
> worst, but it's false that the worst samples of any car model are kept
> in the domestic market and the best exported because it's impractical
> to sort them by quality (you don't rely upon inspections to check
> quality). But Japan has made odd cars sold only in Japan because
> nobody else would want them, some of them Suzukis.

It is the Emission requirements that is nearly impossible to meet without
costly repairs that drive people to buy new cars in Japan, hence flooding
the low mileage used cars business. Those cars are still in pristine
conditions. I have seen they with my own eyes, and I dare say, some are
better than some "New" American cars. It is that quality that started the
export and have kept it going. Prior to that they used to dismantle and
recycle those cars.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:vfciiqhhsg02a2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Phil Sharkey" <phsharkey@netscape.net> wrote
> > Maybe the low milage Japanese cars that get to the U.K. do so because
> > the Japanese are no fools and would just assume get the Monday morning
> > lemons out of the country where they will no longer be their problem?
> > Just a thought.
>
> I do know that the inspection requirements for continued licensing of cars
> in Japan is extremely onerous. It tends to make consumers there buy new
> cars often rather than spend a lot on maintenance... Also, there are not
> many
> places to drive in Japan (nor would I want to drive there, especially in
the
> cities.)
>
> Floyd
>
>