Honda Car Forum

The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
in for service:

- - -
Dear Tom and Ray: I have a mechanics¹ ethics question for you.

I drive a 2009 Nissan Rogue. I love this car. I was getting ready for
a road trip, and I realized that there were three minor recalls on the
car and that it was time for the 30,000-mile service.

So I take the car to the dealership, the guy tells me the service
package they offer and then charges me $500. I tell my wife, who gets
upset that I need $500 worth of service on a relatively new car.

I call the guy back, and he tells me that this is the ³premium²
service package, and that they already started so I can¹t change it.

I ask him why he only offered me the premium service package, and he
says that I didn¹t ask for any other service packages.

Did my dealership¹s mechanic take me for a ride, or does he not need
to tell me the options? I now know that I can download all my suggested
maintenance requirements, broken down by mileage, from the Nissan
website, and I plan to do this from now on. I guess I feel this is
partially my fault for not being an informed consumer, but I also think
the mechanic should have explained the ³premium² service to me in more
detail. What do you think?

‹ Dave

Tom: I think you¹re exactly right, Dave. Your mechanic was not
entirely honest with you and you should have been a more informed
consumer.

Ray: Your wife also is right. A car with 30,000 miles on it should
need almost nothing ‹ certainly not $500 worth of regular maintenance.

Tom: A lot of dealerships make a lot of money by adding extra
services to the scheduled maintenance routines. You have the right to
decline these extra flushes, inspections and fuzzy-dice rotations. But
in order to do that, you need to know what is required.

Ray: That information is available not only online, but also in the
back of your owner¹s manual (that¹s the rectangular thing wrapped in
cellophane in the bottom of your glove box, Dave).

Tom: You also have the right to take your car to someplace other than
the dealer for its scheduled maintenance, even if it¹s still under
warranty. Simply present any mechanic you like with the list of required
maintenance from the back of your owner¹s manual and ask for an
estimate. You can compare that price with what your dealer is charging
for the same services and decide from there.

Ray: We also recommend that customers ask whoever does the service to
stamp or sign the spot in the back of the manual that indicates that the
scheduled maintenance has been performed. You¹ll probably never need
proof, but if you do have an engine warranty claim someday, it¹s good to
have that.

Tom: And as far as your dealership¹s mechanic is concerned, he was
sleazy on two counts. First, he absolutely should have explained to you
that there are several levels of service. Once he does that, he can
take his best shot at persuading you to opt for the more expensive one.
But the choice should be yours. The fact that he didn¹t do that lands
him squarely on our fecal roster.

Ray: And second, when you called him and asked him to stop the work,
he should have said, ³I¹ll have them switch you to the basic service,
and even if they¹ve already done some of the work, we¹ll only charge you
the lower price.² That could have earned your loyalty as a customer for
years. But instead, he was more interested in taking in a few extra
bucks.

Tom: But you also bear some responsibility, in this case, for being
an uninformed consumer, Dave. Now you know better. So next time, you¹ll
not only go somewhere else for your service, but you¹ll bring with you
your Nissan-approved list. And maybe a couple of large friends with
baseball bats.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
> The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
> and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
> off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
> in for service:

What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they bought
a used car?
Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
>
> Ray: That information is available not only online, but also in the
> back of your owner¹s manual (that¹s the rectangular thing wrapped in
> cellophane in the bottom of your glove box, Dave).

My favorite quote.

"Cameo" <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i72vde$b0s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
>> The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
>> and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
>> off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
>> in for service:
>
> What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they bought a
> used car?
> Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.

Again, if they lose it, that's their responsibility. If they bought a used
car or lost the one they had, it's their responsibility to get a new one (or
download the information or whatever so long as they have it).

In article <i72vde$b0s$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Cameo" <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
> > The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
> > and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
> > off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
> > in for service:
>
> What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they bought
> a used car?
> Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.

The problem here isn't used cars. It's the "my 2010 FancyDan XLE needs
its 15,000 mile service; the dealer says it'll cost $600. Is that a
good price?" or "I just bought this 2011 Family Truckster with the
undercoating and the sport trim package. What does this button on the
dash here do?" questions that reveal the need for a Bitch Slap.

On Sep 18, 1:34*pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article <i72vde$b0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> *"Cameo" <ca...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> >news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
> > > The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
> > > and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
> > > off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
> > > in for service:
>
> > What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they bought
> > a used car?
> > Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.
>
> The problem here isn't used cars. *It's the "my 2010 FancyDan XLE needs
> its 15,000 mile service; the dealer says it'll cost $600. *Is that a
> good price?" or "I just bought this 2011 Family Truckster with the
> undercoating and the sport trim package. What does this button on the
> dash here do?" questions that reveal the need for a Bitch Slap.

Well, yes, but there are some clever maintenance advisers out there.
I took my wife's Jeep into a dealer, in Dallas, with the maintenance
manual in hand, to do an oil and filter change, and check something.
He showed me where there was a "A" and a "B" service, and one was for
dusty conditions and should be done because this was Texas. Well,
Dallas is hardly the wild west - it's a big city, so I changed to a
local shop.

Also in California I took my wife's Jeep in for the 60K service, book
in hand, and the shark pulled out a big plastic covered list of what
he said was "what we do for the 60K service. It had replacing every
fluid in the car. I asked him if I got a blood transfusion with that,
and I left there, never to come back.

We now have a 2010 Honda Pilot Touring (to get this on subject) with
the countdown to oil change meter reading about 20% so I am about to
take it in to the dealer from which we bought the car (through a
buying service) and see if they recognize their own maintenance
manual. That's the real problem. They know what has to be done, they
just add on things that the owner doesn't know about, but usually
relents thinking they must know something that he, and the manual,
does not know.

"billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote:

> That's the real problem. They know what has to be done, they
> just add on things that the owner doesn't know about, but usually
> relents thinking they must know something that he, and the manual,
> does not know.

My Honda dealer also had their own scheduled maintenance to-do list that
included much more items than what was in the owner's manual. They also
told me almost every time that my wheels needed realignment ("You must
have hit some curbs or bumps.") Eventually I got tired of it and
switched to an independent shop that does not play that game.

"Cameo" <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i73i9b$lj6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote:
>
>> That's the real problem. They know what has to be done, they
>> just add on things that the owner doesn't know about, but usually
>> relents thinking they must know something that he, and the manual,
>> does not know.
>
> My Honda dealer also had their own scheduled maintenance to-do list that
> included much more items than what was in the owner's manual. They also
> told me almost every time that my wheels needed realignment ("You must
> have hit some curbs or bumps.") Eventually I got tired of it and switched
> to an independent shop that does not play that game.

When I call to set my appointment, I ask them to list each specific task
included in their service package and how much each costs. Then I ask them
what's the minimum service required to maintain the warranty. Most of the
time, they realize that I'm hip to the game and give me the straight dope.
If not, it's pretty easy to tell when they're trying to game me.

I prefer to do it by phone, because if I suspect they're not being straight
with me, I just hang up without making an appointment. Then I do some
research and call back once I've decided exactly what I want done to my car.
Another advantage hashing this out over the phone (rather than when you
arrive in person) is that I usually get another service rep when I call back
and don't have to deal with the first one who was trying to game me.

"billzz" <billzz@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:029b844e-3eca-4fc5-be91-1226b5f204b3@l25g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 18, 1:34 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
> wrote:
>> In article <i72vde$b0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>
>> "Cameo" <ca...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> >news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
>> > > The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's
>> > > clearly
>> > > and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh
>> > > my ass
>> > > off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take
>> > > the car
>> > > in for service:
>>
>> > What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they
>> > bought
>> > a used car?
>> > Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.
>>
>> The problem here isn't used cars. It's the "my 2010 FancyDan XLE
>> needs
>> its 15,000 mile service; the dealer says it'll cost $600. Is that
>> a
>> good price?" or "I just bought this 2011 Family Truckster with the
>> undercoating and the sport trim package. What does this button on
>> the
>> dash here do?" questions that reveal the need for a Bitch Slap.
>
> Well, yes, but there are some clever maintenance advisers out there.
> I took my wife's Jeep into a dealer, in Dallas, with the maintenance
> manual in hand, to do an oil and filter change, and check something.
> He showed me where there was a "A" and a "B" service, and one was
> for
> dusty conditions and should be done because this was Texas. Well,
> Dallas is hardly the wild west - it's a big city, so I changed to a
> local shop.
>
> Also in California I took my wife's Jeep in for the 60K service,
> book
> in hand, and the shark pulled out a big plastic covered list of what
> he said was "what we do for the 60K service. It had replacing every
> fluid in the car. I asked him if I got a blood transfusion with
> that,
> and I left there, never to come back.
>
> We now have a 2010 Honda Pilot Touring (to get this on subject) with
> the countdown to oil change meter reading about 20% so I am about to
> take it in to the dealer from which we bought the car (through a
> buying service) and see if they recognize their own maintenance
> manual. That's the real problem. They know what has to be done,
> they
> just add on things that the owner doesn't know about, but usually
> relents thinking they must know something that he, and the manual,
> does not know.

Information is readily available to everyone, and many places will
always try to maximize revenue.....Caveat emptor.

"Cameo" <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i72vde$b0s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-ECAF7F.09393718092010@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
>> The next time someone comes in here and asks a question that's clearly
>> and plainly answered in the owner's manual, I'm going to laugh my ass
>> off knowing they're getting the royal treatment when they take the car
>> in for service:
>
> What if they lost their owner's manual or never got it when they bought a
> used car?
> Shit happens. Not everybody bothers to order a new one.
-
And with a new Lexus, you get a "one size fits all" manual, covering every
possible configuration of the vehicle. Takes quite a while to figure out
what your car has.