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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 02:49 pm
Matt Ion
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Default 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed
up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no
problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would
expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.

Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
the car off...

Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago,
because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.

Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this
a known thing? Is there a known fix?

Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 02:58 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

Matt Ion wrote:
> I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
> habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed
> up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no
> problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would
> expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.
>
> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
> the car off...
>
> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
> same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
> compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago,
> because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>
> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this
> a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>
> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
> thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
> replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
> again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

what are the symptoms that indicate that it's buring oil only when cold?
you need to be more specific so we can help.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 04:51 pm
Matt Ion
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Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

jim beam wrote:

> Matt Ion wrote:
>
>> I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
>> habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it
>> warmed up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions
>> test, no problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit
>> (would expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to
>> no avail.
>>
>> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I
>> wrote the car off...
>>
>> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and
>> the same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
>> compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long
>> ago, because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>>
>> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is
>> this a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>>
>> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
>> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
>> thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose
>> and replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator
>> working again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
>> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>

> what are the symptoms that indicate that it's buring oil only when cold?
> you need to be more specific so we can help.


Ummm... it blows out huge amounts of burnt-oil-smelling blue smoke when
the engine is cold, and doesn't once it's warmed up. Can't get much
more specific than that.




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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 05:22 pm
Jason
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

In article <Pm5ke.1447034$8l.54645@pd7tw1no>, Matt Ion
<soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote:

> I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
> habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed
> up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no
> problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would
> expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.
>
> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
> the car off...
>
> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
> same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
> compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago,
> because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>
> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this
> a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>
> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
> thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
> replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
> again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com


Hello,
I suggest that you run a compression check on each cylinder and repost
after you have done that. It's possible that some or all of the rings
might need to be replaced. It's fairly common for older cars with over a
100,000 miles on them to eventually develop problems with the rings. When
the rings get in really bad shape--you have lots of smoke coming out the
exhaust pipes.

--
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 05:43 pm
Matt Ion
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

Jason wrote:

> In article <Pm5ke.1447034$8l.54645@pd7tw1no>, Matt Ion
> <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
>>habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed
>>up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no
>>problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would
>>expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.
>>
>>Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
>>the car off...
>>
>>Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
>>same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
>>compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago,
>>because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>>
>>Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this
>>a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>>
>>Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
>>couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
>>thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
>>replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
>>again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
>>
>>
>>---
>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
>>Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>http://www.avast.com

>
>
> Hello,
> I suggest that you run a compression check on each cylinder and repost
> after you have done that. It's possible that some or all of the rings
> might need to be replaced. It's fairly common for older cars with over a
> 100,000 miles on them to eventually develop problems with the rings. When
> the rings get in really bad shape--you have lots of smoke coming out the
> exhaust pipes.


My experience is that worn rings tend to cause a more consistant, less
severe oil burning - it blows a little blue all the time, expecially
under acceleration, rather than heavy burning while cold that goes away
once things warm up.


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 05:53 pm
disallow
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

never had this prob on a honda, just wondering if
it could be the valve guides? My 85 Nissan did this....

t

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 06:02 pm
Jason
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

In article <0W7ke.1446351$Xk.1051386@pd7tw3no>, Matt Ion
<soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
> > In article <Pm5ke.1447034$8l.54645@pd7tw1no>, Matt Ion
> > <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
> >>habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed
> >>up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no
> >>problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would
> >>expand and close up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.
> >>
> >>Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
> >>the car off...
> >>
> >>Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
> >>same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
> >>compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago,
> >>because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
> >>
> >>Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this
> >>a known thing? Is there a known fix?
> >>
> >>Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
> >>couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
> >>thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
> >>replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
> >>again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
> >>
> >>
> >>---
> >>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> >>Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
> >>Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
> >>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> >>http://www.avast.com

> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > I suggest that you run a compression check on each cylinder and repost
> > after you have done that. It's possible that some or all of the rings
> > might need to be replaced. It's fairly common for older cars with over a
> > 100,000 miles on them to eventually develop problems with the rings. When
> > the rings get in really bad shape--you have lots of smoke coming out the
> > exhaust pipes.

>
> My experience is that worn rings tend to cause a more consistant, less
> severe oil burning - it blows a little blue all the time, expecially
> under acceleration, rather than heavy burning while cold that goes away
> once things warm up.


I realize that you are right related to vehicles that have a major problem
with all or at least most all of the rings. However, if there is only a
minor problem with one or two rings--you may end up with the problem that
you mentioned. A compression check should help you determine if I am or am
not correct. If I am wrong--you would have learned that you need to look
elsewhere for the cause of the problem. I just know that in most
cases--heavy smoke coming out of the exhaust is usually caused by one or
more bad rings. I believe that lots of mechanics would agree with me.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 06:50 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>
>>> I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
>>> habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it
>>> warmed up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru
>>> emissions test, no problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was
>>> the culprit (would expand and close up once warm), so I had the head
>>> rebuilt, to no avail.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I
>>> wrote the car off...
>>>
>>> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and
>>> the same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
>>> compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long
>>> ago, because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>>>
>>> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is
>>> this a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>>>
>>> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
>>> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the
>>> %@#*$& thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it
>>> loose and replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the
>>> alternator working again to try it out. Unless someone has another
>>> suggestion?
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
>>> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
>>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> what are the symptoms that indicate that it's buring oil only when
>> cold? you need to be more specific so we can help.

>
>
> Ummm... it blows out huge amounts of burnt-oil-smelling blue smoke when
> the engine is cold, and doesn't once it's warmed up. Can't get much
> more specific than that.
>

you didn't state the symptoms, so relax guy. stating mileage would help
too.

causes include valve stem seals, piston rings, pcv valve, even esoteric
stuff like changing spark plugs & allowing oil to run into the cylinders.

in your case, i'd say rings. do the compression test.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 08:01 pm
John
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.


"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:Pm5ke.1447034$8l.54645@pd7tw1no...
>I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a habit
>of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed up, the
>oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru emissions test, no problems.
>It was suggested a worn valve seal was the culprit (would expand and close
>up once warm), so I had the head rebuilt, to no avail.
>
> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I wrote
> the car off...
>
> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and the
> same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great, compression
> to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long ago, because it
> goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>
> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is this a
> known thing? Is there a known fix?
>
> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the %@#*$&
> thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get it loose and
> replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the alternator working
> again to try it out. Unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

I had an '85 with the 1.8 engine that did the same thing. When the weather
was cold like 35 degrees F or less it would smoke bad til it warmed up. It
had good compression and ran great. I decide to put rings in it and when I
pulled the pistons I found that the oil control rings on every one of them
was stuck in the ring grooves. There was very little wear in the bores and
ring end gaps of the compression rings were all well within specs. I
cleaned the grooves, honed the cylinders and put in the new rings and the
problem was solved. I wondered if there would have been some way to free the
rings up with out pulling them. Anyway it's got about 6,000 miles on it
since then and doesn't smoke at all now.

John


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2005, 09:21 pm
Matt Ion
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 87 Accord oil burning when cold.

jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used to have an '87 Accord seadn (2.0/2bbl/5spd) that developed a
>>>> habit of burning oil REAL BAD when it was cold, but as soon as it
>>>> warmed up, the oil burning cleared up completely - flew thru
>>>> emissions test, no problems. It was suggested a worn valve seal was
>>>> the culprit (would expand and close up once warm), so I had the head
>>>> rebuilt, to no avail.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I lived with it (as did my neighbors) for a while until I
>>>> wrote the car off...
>>>>
>>>> Now I've picked up an '87 Accord hatchback, with the same engine and
>>>> the same problem, though not as bad (yet). The thing runs great,
>>>> compression to spare; I suspect the engine was rebuilt not too long
>>>> ago, because it goes like stink. There's gotta be something else.
>>>>
>>>> Two out of three near-identicals Accords now with this problem - is
>>>> this a known thing? Is there a known fix?
>>>>
>>>> Only other possible thing I can think of is the PCV valve, which I
>>>> couldn't replace on the first car because I could never get the
>>>> %@#*$& thing out of the @^$#)# manifold... now I've managed to get
>>>> it loose and replace it on this one, and just waiting to get the
>>>> alternator working again to try it out. Unless someone has another
>>>> suggestion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>>> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-4, 05/20/2005
>>>> Tested on: 5/22/2005 12:48:41 PM
>>>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> what are the symptoms that indicate that it's buring oil only when
>>> cold? you need to be more specific so we can help.

>>
>>
>>
>> Ummm... it blows out huge amounts of burnt-oil-smelling blue smoke
>> when the engine is cold, and doesn't once it's warmed up. Can't get
>> much more specific than that.
>>

> you didn't state the symptoms, so relax guy.


I did say it was BURNING oil, not USING it, and pointing out that it
"cleared up" and "passed emissions" should indicate it was SMOKING
pretty badly before. At least for anyone who's paying attention.

> stating mileage would help too.


270,000-some kilometers.

> causes include valve stem seals, piston rings, pcv valve, even esoteric
> stuff like changing spark plugs & allowing oil to run into the cylinders.
>
> in your case, i'd say rings. do the compression test.




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