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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2010, 09:43 pm
Cameo
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Default Is Honda switching to timing chains?

My neighbor just bought a new CR-V and he says that not only that model
uses timing chain instead of belt, but that Honda is doing that with
other new models as well. I've never heard this before. Is this true?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2010, 11:14 pm
Matt
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 19:43:26 -0700, Cameo wrote:

> My neighbor just bought a new CR-V and he says that not only that model
> uses timing chain instead of belt, but that Honda is doing that with
> other new models as well. I've never heard this before. Is this true?



My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a belt!!!!!!

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 06:20 am
Howard Lester
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?


"Brian Smith" wrote

>> My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a
>> belt!!!!!!


> Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue with a
> vehicle with a timing belt.


I'd think the issue is with the cost to replace the belt, whereas the chain
is.... maintenance-free. ?


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 06:36 am
Brian Smith
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On 9/5/2010 12:14 AM, Matt wrote:
>
> My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a belt!!!!!!


Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue
with a vehicle with a timing belt.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 07:41 am
Brian Smith
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On 9/5/2010 7:20 AM, Howard Lester wrote:
>
> I'd think the issue is with the cost to replace the belt, whereas the chain
> is.... maintenance-free. ?


If one can not afford to maintain a vehicle (or anything one owns),
then one should not attempt to own anything. With ownership comes
responsibilities. It's only a minor expense every few years, so that
argument doesn't really hold.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 08:02 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

In article <i5vrs2$jc3$1@news.datemas.de>,
Brian Smith <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:

> On 9/5/2010 12:14 AM, Matt wrote:
> >
> > My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a belt!!!!!!

>
> Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue
> with a vehicle with a timing belt.


Agreed. Honda used belts for a solid engineering reason.

Now the marketing mavens have taken over and are responding to the
ignorant masses who think that a chain is inherently better, simply
because it isn't a scheduled maintenance item.

Instead, it becomes an unexpected, unscheduled repair.

My brother's 91 Infiniti Q needed its timing chains replaced,
unexpectedly of course, after about 8 years. $2700.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 08:03 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

In article <i5vuf5$hjl$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Howard Lester" <howardxtlester@verizon.net> wrote:

> "Brian Smith" wrote
>
> >> My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a
> >> belt!!!!!!

>
> > Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue with a
> > vehicle with a timing belt.

>
> I'd think the issue is with the cost to replace the belt, whereas the chain
> is.... maintenance-free. ?


It is true the chain is not a scheduled maintenance item like the belt
is.

That is far, far from saying that the chain is free from needing service
attention.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 10:15 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On 09/05/2010 06:02 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<i5vrs2$jc3$1@news.datemas.de>,
> Brian Smith<Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>
>> On 9/5/2010 12:14 AM, Matt wrote:
>>>
>>> My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a belt!!!!!!

>>
>> Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue
>> with a vehicle with a timing belt.

>
> Agreed. Honda used belts for a solid engineering reason.
>
> Now the marketing mavens have taken over and are responding to the
> ignorant masses who think that a chain is inherently better, simply
> because it isn't a scheduled maintenance item.
>
> Instead, it becomes an unexpected, unscheduled repair.
>
> My brother's 91 Infiniti Q needed its timing chains replaced,
> unexpectedly of course, after about 8 years. $2700.


indeed - if there is a chain problem, it's costly. in fact, for many
older cars with non-diy owners, the vehicle with a chain problem will
become uneconomic to repair. thus it gets the vehicle off the road and
the owner into the showroom buying a new one. [if they still have any
brand loyalty left after being let down - the bit the mba bean counters
somehow don't seem to be smart enough to factor into their cash flow
projections]

with a scheduled maintenance item like a belt, and its relatively low
cost [some independents here in the bay area advertise timing belt
changes from only $250], you can keep that puppy on the road almost
indefinitely.

from the engineering perspective, belts with their inherently lower
mass, effective absence of stretch and smoother tooth engagement make
for better emissions over the life of the engine, much better drive
train operation and lower wear rates - technically, a much superior
solution.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 10:46 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On 09/05/2010 09:37 AM, Brian Smith wrote:
> On 9/5/2010 9:02 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>> Agreed. Honda used belts for a solid engineering reason.
>>
>> Now the marketing mavens have taken over and are responding to the
>> ignorant masses who think that a chain is inherently better, simply
>> because it isn't a scheduled maintenance item.
>>
>> Instead, it becomes an unexpected, unscheduled repair.
>>
>> My brother's 91 Infiniti Q needed its timing chains replaced,
>> unexpectedly of course, after about 8 years. $2700.

>
> I agree (as should any thinking person) that chains require maintenance.
> They (the chains) are moving pieces of machinery and everything that
> moves requires TLC through it's lifespan. For the peope that don't think
> that chains can stretch, they are sadly misinformed. Those chains are
> far more expensive than Honda's timing belts.


they're about $74 online for a civic vs $33 for a belt - hardly a
material issue. what /is/ material though is that the belted engines
are designed to be maintained. the chained engines are supposed to be
pretty much "sealed for life". a fundamental philosophical difference
that is part of the huge honda shift towards following the rest of the
automotive world into "life limitation".

--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05 Sep 2010, 11:37 am
Brian Smith
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Honda switching to timing chains?

On 9/5/2010 9:02 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> Agreed. Honda used belts for a solid engineering reason.
>
> Now the marketing mavens have taken over and are responding to the
> ignorant masses who think that a chain is inherently better, simply
> because it isn't a scheduled maintenance item.
>
> Instead, it becomes an unexpected, unscheduled repair.
>
> My brother's 91 Infiniti Q needed its timing chains replaced,
> unexpectedly of course, after about 8 years. $2700.


I agree (as should any thinking person) that chains require
maintenance. They (the chains) are moving pieces of machinery and
everything that moves requires TLC through it's lifespan. For the peope
that don't think that chains can stretch, they are sadly misinformed.
Those chains are far more expensive than Honda's timing belts.
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