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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17 May 2005, 05:52 pm
disallow
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Default Battery draining

I posted on the Volvo forum, but its not as active
as this one, so I thought I would post here too.

Recent rebuild on this 85 Volvo 240 DL,
300000kms. Auto Trannie, B230F motor. Sedan. 3 spd trannie.

The battery goes dead after about 10 hours of not running. Put my
multimeter on it, when running the voltage is 14 volts, which rules out
the alternator. When not running, I can observe
the voltage dropping from 12.75 to about 12.30
or so. It may go lower, but this occured over
about a minute or so after the car was stopped.

Amperage drawn when the car is not running is
0.8 to 0.87 Amps, which shouldn't be enough to drain the battery in 10
hours. This was done
by removing the positive battery cable, and
putting my multimeter between the cable and
the positive post.

The battery is brand new, and I realize it could
be a dud. However, are there any other things
I should be checking? Cables appear to be in good
shape. The clamps on the posts are good too.

Thanks
t

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 17 May 2005, 06:55 pm
remco
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Default Re: Battery draining


"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:621383ac0589c80e3a43ffb0c037d500@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> I posted on the Volvo forum, but its not as active
> as this one, so I thought I would post here too.
>
> Recent rebuild on this 85 Volvo 240 DL,
> 300000kms. Auto Trannie, B230F motor. Sedan. 3 spd trannie.
>
> The battery goes dead after about 10 hours of not running. Put my
> multimeter on it, when running the voltage is 14 volts, which rules out
> the alternator. When not running, I can observe
> the voltage dropping from 12.75 to about 12.30
> or so. It may go lower, but this occured over
> about a minute or so after the car was stopped.
>
> Amperage drawn when the car is not running is
> 0.8 to 0.87 Amps, which shouldn't be enough to drain the battery in 10
> hours. This was done
> by removing the positive battery cable, and
> putting my multimeter between the cable and
> the positive post.
>
> The battery is brand new, and I realize it could
> be a dud. However, are there any other things
> I should be checking? Cables appear to be in good
> shape. The clamps on the posts are good too.
>
> Thanks


Well, this is a honda group so this post really doesn't belong here but
there's no sense leaving you stranded since you are a regular poster, I
think. I've owned a volvo and know a little here and there about that car.

How about your keep the multimeter in line and pull one fuse at a time to
see what's causing the problem? One fuse should make it drop to near zero --
It will at least narrow it down because the problem could be anywhere. It is
not a dead short so most likely something is on that is normally off. (how
about the radio or final amplifier? - they are notorious for doing weird
things like this).
800 mA/hr is not normal and may get your battery drained sufficiently enough
to not start the next day.

Remco


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 17 May 2005, 10:15 pm
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:621383ac0589c80e3a43ffb0c037d500@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I posted on the Volvo forum, but its not as active
> as this one, so I thought I would post here too.
>
> Recent rebuild on this 85 Volvo 240 DL,
> 300000kms. Auto Trannie, B230F motor. Sedan. 3 spd trannie.
>
> The battery goes dead after about 10 hours of not running. Put my
> multimeter on it, when running the voltage is 14 volts, which rules out
> the alternator. When not running, I can observe
> the voltage dropping from 12.75 to about 12.30
> or so. It may go lower, but this occured over
> about a minute or so after the car was stopped.
>
> Amperage drawn when the car is not running is
> 0.8 to 0.87 Amps, which shouldn't be enough to drain the battery in 10
> hours. This was done
> by removing the positive battery cable, and
> putting my multimeter between the cable and
> the positive post.
>
> The battery is brand new, and I realize it could
> be a dud. However, are there any other things
> I should be checking? Cables appear to be in good
> shape. The clamps on the posts are good too.
>
> Thanks
> t
>

Odd - I didn't see it on the Volvo forum (but I haven't been there this
evening - maybe in half an hour). No matter - the regulars there would tell
you the common sleeper here is the light inside the glove box. You can
remove the bulb to test that theory. If that fixes it, finagle with the door
to get it working right.

Mike


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 17 May 2005, 11:40 pm
disallow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

Thanks guys.

After taking all of your advice, we found nuthin!

BUT, there is this blade fuse in line with a wire
coming directly off of the positive terminal of
the battery. Apparently, it feeds the fuel pump
relay. Its a 30 Amp fuse.

Anyways, when I pulled that fuse, the draw on the
battery went from 0.87amps to 0.01amps. I'm
thinking my problem is there.

Any ideas on how to fix this? Once the power goes
to the relay, where would it go from there?

t


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 12:55 am
TeGGeR®
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

"remco" <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote in
news:4wvie.12149$yx.9850@fe08.lga:


> Well, this is a honda group so this post really doesn't belong here




Occasional OT posts occur in other groups as well. Typically the poster has
not received a satisfactory answer in the proper group for his vehicle and
is posting in an OT group as a last resort.

An excellent group for posting fairly general questions (such as this) is
rec.autos.tech. There are quite a number of very knowledgeable posters
there, some of whom would be perfect to ask this question of.



> but there's no sense leaving you stranded since you are a regular
> poster, I think. I've owned a volvo and know a little here and there
> about that car.
>
> How about your keep the multimeter in line and pull one fuse at a time
> to see what's causing the problem? One fuse should make it drop to
> near zero




That's the best way. An immediate drop upon pulling a fuse will reveal your
culprit. Remember to pull ALL the fuses and fusible links, including any
big fat ones that are bolted in (unless your culprit is flushed out early).

Is your alternator fused?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 01:15 am
tomb
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

disallow wrote:

| BUT, there is this blade fuse in line with a wire
| coming directly off of the positive terminal of
| the battery. Apparently, it feeds the fuel pump
| relay. Its a 30 Amp fuse.
|
| Anyways, when I pulled that fuse, the draw on the
| battery went from 0.87amps to 0.01amps. I'm
| thinking my problem is there.

800mA certainly doesn't sound right for "idle current".

| Any ideas on how to fix this? Once the power goes
| to the relay, where would it go from there?

Don't know much (anything about Volvos, but on a regular Civic it would
go through the "main relay" into the ECU, which keep it at an open circuit
until it wants to power the fuel pump. You wouldn't happen to have any
schematics of any sort, would you?

I hope your fuel pump is not running 24/7? (or at least until the battery is
dead...)

A quick google shows that Volvo's of that generation have problems with wire
harnesses quite a bit (insulation eroding away? wtf?

http://personal.linkline.com/dbarton/WireHarnesses.html


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 06:06 am
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

you may a stuck or fused fuel pump relay which is also a common problem
"tomb" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:x4Bie.18483$J12.8119@newssvr14.news.prodigy.c om...
> disallow wrote:
>
> | BUT, there is this blade fuse in line with a wire
> | coming directly off of the positive terminal of
> | the battery. Apparently, it feeds the fuel pump
> | relay. Its a 30 Amp fuse.
> |
> | Anyways, when I pulled that fuse, the draw on the
> | battery went from 0.87amps to 0.01amps. I'm
> | thinking my problem is there.
>
> 800mA certainly doesn't sound right for "idle current".
>
> | Any ideas on how to fix this? Once the power goes
> | to the relay, where would it go from there?
>
> Don't know much (anything about Volvos, but on a regular Civic it would
> go through the "main relay" into the ECU, which keep it at an open circuit
> until it wants to power the fuel pump. You wouldn't happen to have any
> schematics of any sort, would you?
>
> I hope your fuel pump is not running 24/7? (or at least until the battery

is
> dead...)
>
> A quick google shows that Volvo's of that generation have problems with

wire
> harnesses quite a bit (insulation eroding away? wtf?
>
> http://personal.linkline.com/dbarton/WireHarnesses.html
>
>



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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 06:55 am
remco
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

>
> After taking all of your advice, we found nuthin!
>
> BUT, there is this blade fuse in line with a wire
> coming directly off of the positive terminal of
> the battery. Apparently, it feeds the fuel pump
> relay. Its a 30 Amp fuse.
>
> Anyways, when I pulled that fuse, the draw on the
> battery went from 0.87amps to 0.01amps. I'm
> thinking my problem is there.
>
> Any ideas on how to fix this? Once the power goes
> to the relay, where would it go from there?


Seems odd that they'd fuse a fuel pump with 30Amps and feed it directly off
the battery since a a fuel pump doesn't take very much power to run. Power
delivery (ie power drop across wires, requiring fat wires) is usually not a
problem.

My old volvo was an older model and don't remember if they had direct line
going to the pump.
What is more logical is that this fuses the alternator. An alternator is
usually directly connected to the battery. It does have diodes inside that
short and cause current to flow when it shouldn't. Can you follow that wire
to see where it goes?

Also, I'd imagine that if that fat wire and fuse indeed do feed the pump
through a relay, it would most likely be connected to the contact of the
relay (the switch side) -- there's no point connecting a high current wire
to the coil (actuator side) of the relay as that is definitely low current.
That being true, the only way that you can have any appreciable current
running is if the pump is running, even with the car shut off. That relay
must be driven somehow.

I'd still first check to make sure that that fat wire/fuse is not connected
to the alternator, though..

Remco



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 07:23 am
remco
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

>
> > After taking all of your advice, we found nuthin!
> >
> > BUT, there is this blade fuse in line with a wire
> > coming directly off of the positive terminal of
> > the battery. Apparently, it feeds the fuel pump
> > relay. Its a 30 Amp fuse.
> >
> > Anyways, when I pulled that fuse, the draw on the
> > battery went from 0.87amps to 0.01amps. I'm
> > thinking my problem is there.
> >
> > Any ideas on how to fix this? Once the power goes
> > to the relay, where would it go from there?

>
> Seems odd that they'd fuse a fuel pump with 30Amps and feed it directly

off
> the battery since a a fuel pump doesn't take very much power to run. Power
> delivery (ie power drop across wires, requiring fat wires) is usually not

a
> problem.
>
> My old volvo was an older model and don't remember if they had direct line
> going to the pump.
> What is more logical is that this fuses the alternator. An alternator is
> usually directly connected to the battery. It does have diodes inside that
> short and cause current to flow when it shouldn't. Can you follow that

wire
> to see where it goes?
>
> Also, I'd imagine that if that fat wire and fuse indeed do feed the pump
> through a relay, it would most likely be connected to the contact of the
> relay (the switch side) -- there's no point connecting a high current wire
> to the coil (actuator side) of the relay as that is definitely low

current.
> That being true, the only way that you can have any appreciable current
> running is if the pump is running, even with the car shut off. That relay
> must be driven somehow.
>
> I'd still first check to make sure that that fat wire/fuse is not

connected
> to the alternator, though..


Just one more thought:

We know a car can't drive without a fuel pump but can drive without an
alternator (albeit not very long), right?
Disconnect that offending fuse and see if the car starts and runs. If it
does, that fuse was clearly not to the fuel pump.

Hope you find it soon. Let us know how you make out -- it might be OT but
now I am interested.

Remco


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 18 May 2005, 07:51 am
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Battery draining

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns965A13A0FF488tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "remco" <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:4wvie.12149$yx.9850@fe08.lga:
>
>
>> Well, this is a honda group so this post really doesn't belong here

>
>
>
> Occasional OT posts occur in other groups as well. Typically the poster
> has
> not received a satisfactory answer in the proper group for his vehicle and
> is posting in an OT group as a last resort.
>
> An excellent group for posting fairly general questions (such as this) is
> rec.autos.tech. There are quite a number of very knowledgeable posters
> there, some of whom would be perfect to ask this question of.
>

This particular question does get pretty model-specific, though. I have a
765T instead of a 240, but same year, engine (except the turbo version) and
tranny. One of the important issues regarding the mid-80s Volvos is that the
wiring was made in France and has a reputation for insulation crumbling.
I've heard it called "biodegradable" but I don't know if that was a design
thing or is an epithet. I have already replaced my engine harness but have
had to reinsulate dozens of other wires - and many of them can cause the
drain the OP experiences.

'disallow', since the fuel pump fuse seems to be carrying the current, have
you tried pulling the fuel pump relay to see if it disappears? I'm thinking
you may have a wiring short on the other side of one of the relay coils.
That is a lot of current for a fuel pump relay coil, but it sounds about
right for the in-tank pump, which is controlled by one part of that relay.

Mike


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