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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23 Aug 2010, 11:49 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Default Ping Elle, Tegger

Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
different activation temperatures?

My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
modulation while idling etc.

Thanks,

JT
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2010, 08:46 am
Elle
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

On Aug 23, 10:49*pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com>
wrote:
> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
> different activation temperatures?
>
> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
> modulation while idling etc.


1.
For newer Civics I am finding that Mugen, Mishimoto, and it seems
Spoon make fan thermal switches that turn the fan on at a lower
temperature. It seems these are for racing, hence I have some hope
that you can find one for your generation. See for example
http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-h...mo-switch.html

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/perf...onics/Switches

2.
Mugen for one says to get a thermostat that matches up with the
thermal switch.

3.
I gather yours screws into the bottom of the radiator. The late 80s
ones screw into the back of the engine block. Still, it seems the
interchangeability is likely from looking for aftermarket thermal
switches. See for example
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FAN-S...Q5fAccessories

4.
I think I might go over to the junkyard, forage for the switch on
various generations, and check to see if the mechanical fitting of the
later generation thermal switches works on your older Civic.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2010, 10:53 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

On 08/23/2010 09:49 PM, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
> different activation temperatures?
>
> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180�F thermostats, (standard for those years),
> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
> modulation while idling etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JT


you can get aftermarket fan control units that have variable fan speed
outputs - will do what you describe perfectly.

however, i'd question your rationale for this. honda tested their
vehicles at extreme temperatures and if the cooling system is
functioning correctly, there should be no need for augmentation. no
point monkeying with fan control if the coolant circuit is blocked.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2010, 11:01 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Elle wrote:
> On Aug 23, 10:49 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com>
> wrote:
>> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
>> different activation temperatures?
>>
>> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
>> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
>> modulation while idling etc.

>
> 1.
> For newer Civics I am finding that Mugen, Mishimoto, and it seems
> Spoon make fan thermal switches that turn the fan on at a lower
> temperature. It seems these are for racing, hence I have some hope
> that you can find one for your generation. See for example
> http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-h...mo-switch.html


I'll check this out.


> http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/perf...onics/Switches
>
> 2.
> Mugen for one says to get a thermostat that matches up with the
> thermal switch.


Exactly what I want to do.


> 3.
> I gather yours screws into the bottom of the radiator. The late 80s
> ones screw into the back of the engine block. Still, it seems the
> interchangeability is likely from looking for aftermarket thermal
> switches. See for example
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FAN-S...Q5fAccessories


The Gen II Civics had two sensors (on some models), one in the head near
the thermostat side and the on the lower radiator.


> 4.
> I think I might go over to the junkyard, forage for the switch on
> various generations, and check to see if the mechanical fitting of the
> later generation thermal switches works on your older Civic.


Oh, not many Hondas from 1980's in junkyards around here...

The issue is that the later Civics had a higher operating temperature
for emission control reasons. I'm just wondering if there is some sort
of coding to determine when a sensor will close the ground circuit.


I'm just trying to shorten the range between the thermostat and sensor.

That said, the current heat wave here will end today so this will be
less of a concern. The car is not overheating but the temp indicator
rises when idling until the fan kicks in. Needless to say, temperatures
indicators particularly on old cars are not exact by any means.

JT

JT






JT

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2010, 11:05 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

jim beam wrote:
> On 08/23/2010 09:49 PM, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
>> different activation temperatures?
>>
>> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180�F thermostats, (standard for those years),
>> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
>> modulation while idling etc.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> JT

>
> you can get aftermarket fan control units that have variable fan speed
> outputs - will do what you describe perfectly.


I'll probably swap out the sensor in the radiator.


> however, i'd question your rationale for this. honda tested their
> vehicles at extreme temperatures and if the cooling system is
> functioning correctly, there should be no need for augmentation. no
> point monkeying with fan control if the coolant circuit is blocked.


Cooling system is in top condition including a nearly new radiator. It
just seems that the gap between the thermostat opening and the sensor
kicking the fan on is too wide. This only occurs in heavy traffic
waiting for a light. Even so, the temperature does not go into the
danger zone just a little too high for my liking. My other Civics don't
have these symptoms.

JT
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 26 Aug 2010, 07:23 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
news:N9SdnTvCBtcX3O7RnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@giganews.com:

> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
> different activation temperatures?
>
> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
> modulation while idling etc.
>



You mean the GAUGE goes up and down? Or does the IDLE go up and down?

Simply swapping temperature sensors is not the answer here. There is
something else going on.

The dashboard temperature gauge (like the gas gauge) has a damper component
that is supposed to prevent short-term fluctuation. If that component
starts to go bad, the needle will follow every movement of the thermostat.
The thermostat is opening and closing all the time, especially at idle.

What's the amplitude and frequency of the "modulation"?

--
Tegger
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 26 Aug 2010, 08:36 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
news:N9SdnTvCBtcX3O7RnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@giganews.com:

> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
> different activation temperatures?
>
> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
> modulation while idling etc.
>



The RAD-mounted sensor is the for cooling fan.

The ENGINE-mounted sensor is for the dashboard gauge.

If the fan runs too often and too long, then the rad sensor is simply
faulty and in need of replacement by a new one of the very same rating as
the original.

If your thermostat is of the correct rating and is in good working-order,
then it will properly control the engine-coolant temperature regardless of
what the rad fan wants to do.

Despite the age of your ride, you should be using genuine Honda parts, not
aftermarket. If you're using aftermarket parts, that's the most likely
explanation for whatever erroneous behavior you're experiencing. Unless
you've got a deeper and more fundamental problem, like poor combustion, or
low compression, etc.

--
Tegger
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 27 Aug 2010, 10:31 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Tegger wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
> news:N9SdnTvCBtcX3O7RnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
>> different activation temperatures?
>>
>> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
>> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
>> modulation while idling etc.
>>

>
>
> You mean the GAUGE goes up and down? Or does the IDLE go up and down?


The gauge will creep upward until the fan kicks in when waiting at light
etc.


> Simply swapping temperature sensors is not the answer here. There is
> something else going on.
>
> The dashboard temperature gauge (like the gas gauge) has a damper component
> that is supposed to prevent short-term fluctuation. If that component
> starts to go bad, the needle will follow every movement of the thermostat.
> The thermostat is opening and closing all the time, especially at idle.
>
> What's the amplitude and frequency of the "modulation"?


No sudden movement(s). Simply a creep when stuck in traffic until the
fan kicks in.

Temperature gauges are not super accurate but I figure the temperature
modulates upward as much as twenty degrees when it occurs...

JT
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27 Aug 2010, 10:35 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Tegger wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
> news:N9SdnTvCBtcX3O7RnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> Do either of you know if the radiator temp sensors can be had at
>> different activation temperatures?
>>
>> My Civics, (Gen II), have 180F thermostats, (standard for those years),
>> and need a lower temp radiator sensor so as to prevent temperature
>> modulation while idling etc.
>>

>
>
> The RAD-mounted sensor is the for cooling fan.
>
> The ENGINE-mounted sensor is for the dashboard gauge.


There are two engine mounted sensors. One is similar to the radiator
unit while the other is a single lead which feeds the temperature gauge.


> If the fan runs too often and too long, then the rad sensor is simply
> faulty and in need of replacement by a new one of the very same rating as
> the original.


That's the question... Is there a way to determine a "rating" by part
number?


> If your thermostat is of the correct rating and is in good working-order,
> then it will properly control the engine-coolant temperature regardless of
> what the rad fan wants to do.


Not in 100+ Texas temperatures.


> Despite the age of your ride, you should be using genuine Honda parts, not
> aftermarket. If you're using aftermarket parts, that's the most likely
> explanation for whatever erroneous behavior you're experiencing. Unless
> you've got a deeper and more fundamental problem, like poor combustion, or
> low compression, etc.


Genuine Honda parts are getting scarce for these cars. I am using Honda
thermostats though.

JT

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28 Aug 2010, 08:50 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ping Elle, Tegger

Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
news:mfydndZFNIS96OXRnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com :


>
> No sudden movement(s). Simply a creep when stuck in traffic until the
> fan kicks in.
>
> Temperature gauges are not super accurate but I figure the temperature
> modulates upward as much as twenty degrees when it occurs...
>



It's likely the switch is simply faulty and in need of replacement with one
exactly like it.

I've seen those switches fail three ways:
1) no power to fan
2) fan comes on too soon
3) fan comes on too late.

I suspect you have the third.

--
Tegger
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