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Old 19 Aug 2010, 09:14 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own

Some of you know about my 2002 Odyssey with 73K miles and its failed
transmission, and American Honda's "generous" offer to pay 50% toward
the cost of replacing it.

And, of course, you know my feelings on the subject.

Anyway, I dropped the van off yesterday. In talking with the service
writer, he indicated that as of about six months ago, if you need to
replace the transmission in your 02 or 03 V6 Honda, and you come in to
ask that the dealership do this, American Honda will not sell you a
replacement unit of any kind under any circumstances.

Please allow me to repeat this: American Honda will not sell you a
working transmission to replace the self-destructing one they sold you 8
or 9 years ago when you bought the car new.

The ONLY way to get an American Honda transmission, he said, is if you
are under some sort of warranty or goodwill accommodation with American
Honda.

????

So the natural question is, how do you handle customers who for whatever
reason are not under such an arrangement?

This particular dealership has an arrangement with a junkyard to get
units from them. The junkyard "warrants" them for life (or, as we all
know, just keeps throwing units at the customer as the old ones die--but
no doubt the customer ends up paying labor, right?).

I didn't pursue this with the service writer. I'll talk with the
service manager this week to clarify. I mean, this sounds low rent
sleazy.

Interesting side note: The transmission I'm getting as part of my
goodwill arrangement is sufficiently different from the grenaded factory
unit that it needs a different control program. Since my control module
can't be flashed, Honda requires that I get a new computer with this new
transmission--hence the high cost of the overall job. Honda's TSBs
flesh this out; this is so important to Honda that years ago, after they
had already replaced a bunch of transmissions and later discovered the
need for the new control program, they went back and GAVE the
already-repaired customers brand new computers for free.

Of course, now I have to PAY for the computer...

Anyway, this puts the idea of taking it to AAMCO into a whole new light.
I don't know the TRUE importance of the new control program; would a
third-party-rebuilt unit similarly self-destruct a few years down the
road because neither the inherent design nor the control computer was
taken care of?

Inquiring minds and all that.

For reference, Honda's 50% accommodation leaves me holding the bag for
$2218 plus tax.

In my mind, that's just retroactively raising the price of the van
$2218. And to think that when I bought it, it was the most expensive
car this dealership had ever sold. Apparently, that wasn't good enough.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 09:46 am
Dddudley
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Hondawon't let you buy a new one on your own

On 8/19/2010 9:14 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> Some of you know about my 2002 Odyssey with 73K miles and its failed
> transmission, and American Honda's "generous" offer to pay 50% toward
> the cost of replacing it.
>
> And, of course, you know my feelings on the subject.
>
> Anyway, I dropped the van off yesterday. In talking with the service
> writer, he indicated that as of about six months ago, if you need to
> replace the transmission in your 02 or 03 V6 Honda, and you come in to
> ask that the dealership do this, American Honda will not sell you a
> replacement unit of any kind under any circumstances.


[snip]


> This particular dealership has an arrangement with a junkyard to get
> units from them. The junkyard "warrants" them for life (or, as we all
> know, just keeps throwing units at the customer as the old ones die--but
> no doubt the customer ends up paying labor, right?).
>
> I didn't pursue this with the service writer. I'll talk with the
> service manager this week to clarify. I mean, this sounds low rent
> sleazy.


If true, it's more than "sounds sleazy" it is beneath sleazy. In fact
you'd have to dig a hole in order to stand on top of that policy.

Let us know what comes from your "chat" (oh, to be a fly on THAT wall)
with the service manager.

FWIW, I gotta think that there is some federal trade regulation that
requires the automakers to produce and maintain a supply of component
parts for their vehicles and that the time frame for that would be more
than 7 - 8 years. I thought about Magnuson Moss Act but didn't see
anything relevant to it there.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 10:09 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Hondawon't let you buy a new one on your own

On 08/19/2010 07:14 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> Some of you know about my 2002 Odyssey with 73K miles and its failed
> transmission, and American Honda's "generous" offer to pay 50% toward
> the cost of replacing it.
>
> And, of course, you know my feelings on the subject.
>
> Anyway, I dropped the van off yesterday. In talking with the service
> writer, he indicated that as of about six months ago, if you need to
> replace the transmission in your 02 or 03 V6 Honda, and you come in to
> ask that the dealership do this, American Honda will not sell you a
> replacement unit of any kind under any circumstances.
>
> Please allow me to repeat this: American Honda will not sell you a
> working transmission to replace the self-destructing one they sold you 8
> or 9 years ago when you bought the car new.
>
> The ONLY way to get an American Honda transmission, he said, is if you
> are under some sort of warranty or goodwill accommodation with American
> Honda.
>
> ????
>
> So the natural question is, how do you handle customers who for whatever
> reason are not under such an arrangement?
>
> This particular dealership has an arrangement with a junkyard to get
> units from them. The junkyard "warrants" them for life (or, as we all
> know, just keeps throwing units at the customer as the old ones die--but
> no doubt the customer ends up paying labor, right?).
>
> I didn't pursue this with the service writer. I'll talk with the
> service manager this week to clarify. I mean, this sounds low rent
> sleazy.
>
> Interesting side note: The transmission I'm getting as part of my
> goodwill arrangement is sufficiently different from the grenaded factory
> unit that it needs a different control program. Since my control module
> can't be flashed, Honda requires that I get a new computer with this new
> transmission--hence the high cost of the overall job. Honda's TSBs
> flesh this out; this is so important to Honda that years ago, after they
> had already replaced a bunch of transmissions and later discovered the
> need for the new control program, they went back and GAVE the
> already-repaired customers brand new computers for free.
>
> Of course, now I have to PAY for the computer...
>
> Anyway, this puts the idea of taking it to AAMCO into a whole new light.
> I don't know the TRUE importance of the new control program; would a
> third-party-rebuilt unit similarly self-destruct a few years down the
> road because neither the inherent design nor the control computer was
> taken care of?
>
> Inquiring minds and all that.
>
> For reference, Honda's 50% accommodation leaves me holding the bag for
> $2218 plus tax.
>
> In my mind, that's just retroactively raising the price of the van
> $2218. And to think that when I bought it, it was the most expensive
> car this dealership had ever sold. Apparently, that wasn't good enough.


at this stage elmo, this might be a local decision rather than
corporate. i know i will dump problem customers once they reach a
certain "pita" point. and you're almost certainly pressing their
buttons big time.

moving forward, i think your best bet is corporate - have you called
honda usa's customer care?

on the subject of dumped pita customers, one of my exes bullied lexus
corporate so hard and so long, they gave him a full refund on a vehicle
he'd had "problems" with [basically, he just decided he didn't like it].
that was three years of free driving for the price of a bunch of
emails and hollow threats he couldn't possibly execute.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 11:01 am
C. E. White
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own


"Dddudley" <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:4c6d45d1$0$14557$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster. com...

> FWIW, I gotta think that there is some federal trade regulation that
> requires the automakers to produce and maintain a supply of component
> parts for their vehicles and that the time frame for that would be more
> than 7 - 8 years. I thought about Magnuson Moss Act but didn't see
> anything relevant to it there.


I cannot find anything that suggest there is a US Federal law that requires
manufacturers to provide spare parts for a specified period. I would love to
hear of one. Where I work we try to maintian spares for the marketing life
of a new product plus 7 years, but in many cases this is impossible because
we depend on componets from other suppliers that are discontinued.

Ed


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 01:37 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Hondawon't let you buy a new one on your own

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> Some of you know about my 2002 Odyssey with 73K miles and its failed
> transmission, and American Honda's "generous" offer to pay 50% toward
> the cost of replacing it.
>
> And, of course, you know my feelings on the subject.
>
> Anyway, I dropped the van off yesterday. In talking with the service
> writer, he indicated that as of about six months ago, if you need to
> replace the transmission in your 02 or 03 V6 Honda, and you come in to
> ask that the dealership do this, American Honda will not sell you a
> replacement unit of any kind under any circumstances.
>
> Please allow me to repeat this: American Honda will not sell you a
> working transmission to replace the self-destructing one they sold you 8
> or 9 years ago when you bought the car new.
>
> The ONLY way to get an American Honda transmission, he said, is if you
> are under some sort of warranty or goodwill accommodation with American
> Honda.
>
> ????
>
> So the natural question is, how do you handle customers who for whatever
> reason are not under such an arrangement?
>
> This particular dealership has an arrangement with a junkyard to get
> units from them. The junkyard "warrants" them for life (or, as we all
> know, just keeps throwing units at the customer as the old ones die--but
> no doubt the customer ends up paying labor, right?).
>
> I didn't pursue this with the service writer. I'll talk with the
> service manager this week to clarify. I mean, this sounds low rent
> sleazy.
>
> Interesting side note: The transmission I'm getting as part of my
> goodwill arrangement is sufficiently different from the grenaded factory
> unit that it needs a different control program. Since my control module
> can't be flashed, Honda requires that I get a new computer with this new
> transmission--hence the high cost of the overall job. Honda's TSBs
> flesh this out; this is so important to Honda that years ago, after they
> had already replaced a bunch of transmissions and later discovered the
> need for the new control program, they went back and GAVE the
> already-repaired customers brand new computers for free.
>
> Of course, now I have to PAY for the computer...
>
> Anyway, this puts the idea of taking it to AAMCO into a whole new light.
> I don't know the TRUE importance of the new control program; would a
> third-party-rebuilt unit similarly self-destruct a few years down the
> road because neither the inherent design nor the control computer was
> taken care of?
>
> Inquiring minds and all that.
>
> For reference, Honda's 50% accommodation leaves me holding the bag for
> $2218 plus tax.
>
> In my mind, that's just retroactively raising the price of the van
> $2218. And to think that when I bought it, it was the most expensive
> car this dealership had ever sold. Apparently, that wasn't good enough.



Maybe you should search the junkyards for a unit. I'll betcha you could
get a warranted used unit installed for less than $1K.

It's gotta be a bitch to be in this situation. Have you thought about
complaining to the media?

JT

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 01:43 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Hondawon't let you buy a new one on your own

jim beam wrote:
> On 08/19/2010 07:14 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Some of you know about my 2002 Odyssey with 73K miles and its failed
>> transmission, and American Honda's "generous" offer to pay 50% toward
>> the cost of replacing it.
>>
>> And, of course, you know my feelings on the subject.
>>
>> Anyway, I dropped the van off yesterday. In talking with the service
>> writer, he indicated that as of about six months ago, if you need to
>> replace the transmission in your 02 or 03 V6 Honda, and you come in to
>> ask that the dealership do this, American Honda will not sell you a
>> replacement unit of any kind under any circumstances.
>>
>> Please allow me to repeat this: American Honda will not sell you a
>> working transmission to replace the self-destructing one they sold you 8
>> or 9 years ago when you bought the car new.
>>
>> The ONLY way to get an American Honda transmission, he said, is if you
>> are under some sort of warranty or goodwill accommodation with American
>> Honda.
>>
>> ????
>>
>> So the natural question is, how do you handle customers who for whatever
>> reason are not under such an arrangement?
>>
>> This particular dealership has an arrangement with a junkyard to get
>> units from them. The junkyard "warrants" them for life (or, as we all
>> know, just keeps throwing units at the customer as the old ones die--but
>> no doubt the customer ends up paying labor, right?).
>>
>> I didn't pursue this with the service writer. I'll talk with the
>> service manager this week to clarify. I mean, this sounds low rent
>> sleazy.
>>
>> Interesting side note: The transmission I'm getting as part of my
>> goodwill arrangement is sufficiently different from the grenaded factory
>> unit that it needs a different control program. Since my control module
>> can't be flashed, Honda requires that I get a new computer with this new
>> transmission--hence the high cost of the overall job. Honda's TSBs
>> flesh this out; this is so important to Honda that years ago, after they
>> had already replaced a bunch of transmissions and later discovered the
>> need for the new control program, they went back and GAVE the
>> already-repaired customers brand new computers for free.
>>
>> Of course, now I have to PAY for the computer...
>>
>> Anyway, this puts the idea of taking it to AAMCO into a whole new light.
>> I don't know the TRUE importance of the new control program; would a
>> third-party-rebuilt unit similarly self-destruct a few years down the
>> road because neither the inherent design nor the control computer was
>> taken care of?
>>
>> Inquiring minds and all that.
>>
>> For reference, Honda's 50% accommodation leaves me holding the bag for
>> $2218 plus tax.
>>
>> In my mind, that's just retroactively raising the price of the van
>> $2218. And to think that when I bought it, it was the most expensive
>> car this dealership had ever sold. Apparently, that wasn't good enough.

>
> at this stage elmo, this might be a local decision rather than
> corporate. i know i will dump problem customers once they reach a
> certain "pita" point. and you're almost certainly pressing their
> buttons big time.
>
> moving forward, i think your best bet is corporate - have you called
> honda usa's customer care?
>
> on the subject of dumped pita customers, one of my exes bullied lexus
> corporate so hard and so long, they gave him a full refund on a vehicle
> he'd had "problems" with [basically, he just decided he didn't like it].
> that was three years of free driving for the price of a bunch of emails
> and hollow threats he couldn't possibly execute.
>



The old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," sure rings true.

In EVERY circumstance where I had a beef and could not get a
satisfactory resolution, I did not hesitate to escalate.

One thing for sure, Elmo's situation is another nail in the coffin of me
ever upgrading to more modern transportation...

JT

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 05:45 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own

In article <ONWdnWC-fNNn9vDRnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:

> > For reference, Honda's 50% accommodation leaves me holding the bag for
> > $2218 plus tax.
> >
> > In my mind, that's just retroactively raising the price of the van
> > $2218. And to think that when I bought it, it was the most expensive
> > car this dealership had ever sold. Apparently, that wasn't good enough.

>
>
> Maybe you should search the junkyards for a unit. I'll betcha you could
> get a warranted used unit installed for less than $1K.
>
> It's gotta be a bitch to be in this situation. Have you thought about
> complaining to the media?


yeah, I gave some thought to grumbling in public, point out what schleps
American Honda are being.

I really didn't want to go with a junkyard dog. I mean, they came out
of the factory dogs; imagine what they look like in the junkyard today.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2010, 05:48 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own

In article <OoSdnZjWeuO_1PDRnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> at this stage elmo, this might be a local decision rather than
> corporate. i know i will dump problem customers once they reach a
> certain "pita" point. and you're almost certainly pressing their
> buttons big time.


Screw 'em. They pressed my buttons the moment the tranny started
failing on a gently used original owner 2002 Honda that went out the
door for $30K.

If this is the best they can do...

I didn't call the Honda customer service line, on advice of many people
who should be knowledgeable who all advised that 50% was the limit.
Plus, I just wanted to move on.

I'm sure glad I didn't settle for the 25%, though. It's all about
knowing where that line is. I *think* 50% is the line today, without a
HUGE amount of hassle.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2010, 05:50 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own

Dddudley <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote in news:4c6d45d1$0$14557
$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com:


>
> FWIW, I gotta think that there is some federal trade regulation that
> requires the automakers to produce and maintain a supply of component
> parts for their vehicles and that the time frame for that would be more
> than 7 - 8 years.




There isn't one anymore. There WAS one at one time, which was repealed
around the late-60s or so.


--
Tegger
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2010, 05:56 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: And yet even more on the legendary Honda failing transmissions--Honda won't let you buy a new one on your own

Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
news:F72dnUvAtqPP8PDRnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews.com :

..
>
> One thing for sure, Elmo's situation is another nail in the coffin of
> me ever upgrading to more modern transportation...
>



Here's another one:

I'm a moderator on a Yahoo Toyota group. Right now we've got a lady who's
being told her 2003 RAV4 needs a new cat and FOUR new oxygen sensors (two
of which are actually pricey A/F sensors).

It seems that emissions regulations force Toyota to split the cat into two,
one for each pair of the four cylinders. The cats are built into the
exhaust manifold in order to keep them as hot as the EPA requires.

The total price for the fix? $2,000 plus tax.

My 'Teg may be burning oil now, but I might just drop in another engine
rather than submit to such nonsense.

--
Tegger
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