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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2010, 12:29 pm
Rob Kiz
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Default Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
several tries. After doing some research, the symptoms all point
toward a possible main relay problem.

Question: I noticed the clock was off by several hours. I know that a
disconnected or weak battery would cause this but the battery and
connections are fine. When I try to start it, the engine cranks
strongly, and I have not over cranked it and worn the battery down.
How could the starting problem be related to the clock being so far
off?

Thanks,

Rob
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
TE Cheah
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Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

> My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
> can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
> several tries.


My '90 SM4 was meant for a cold climate & had many flaws ( so
starting esp when hot was difficult ) e.g. ( too many to list all ) [i] ALB
uses nearly 40 amp = of alternator 's maximum output @ high rpm :
even after I corrected / mitigated every flaw, ALB still uses too many
amps, so I disabled ALB, only then battery & spark plugs can get enough
amps. [ii] windows' motors' relay wasted amps, til bypassed [iii]
injectors' resistors wasted 19.3 watt, I replaced them with a buck
convertor & 5 inductors & 1 diode & 5 capacitors, only then can
injectors be cool enough to stay clean so engine starts faster & torquer
[iv] alternator had no cooling, I added cooling & got more amps [v]
doors & boot & key slot's bulbs wasted amps, til removed [vi] EGR &
air intake valve both wasted amps, til disabled. [vii] air intake heating all
disabled, to suit a warm climate. [viii] wiper motor's plastic cover
removed to let out hot air.
Only now my F20A starts very well, slow idle torque is 2x of original,
can idle stably ( w-o load ) @ just 550 rpm, on highway with coasting
( & nitrogen ) can go 18 km per litre of just RON95 !


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08 Aug 2010, 07:09 pm
Cameo
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Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

"TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c5eeb60$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
>> My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
>> can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
>> several tries.

>
> My '90 SM4 was meant for a cold climate & had many flaws ( so
> starting esp when hot was difficult ) e.g. ( too many to list all )
> [i] ALB
> uses nearly 40 amp = of alternator 's maximum output @ high rpm :
> even after I corrected / mitigated every flaw, ALB still uses too many
> amps, so I disabled ALB, only then battery & spark plugs can get
> enough
> amps. [ii] windows' motors' relay wasted amps, til bypassed [iii]
> injectors' resistors wasted 19.3 watt, I replaced them with a buck
> convertor & 5 inductors & 1 diode & 5 capacitors, only then can
> injectors be cool enough to stay clean so engine starts faster &
> torquer
> [iv] alternator had no cooling, I added cooling & got more amps [v]
> doors & boot & key slot's bulbs wasted amps, til removed [vi] EGR &
> air intake valve both wasted amps, til disabled. [vii] air intake
> heating all
> disabled, to suit a warm climate. [viii] wiper motor's plastic cover
> removed to let out hot air.
> Only now my F20A starts very well, slow idle torque is 2x of original,
> can idle stably ( w-o load ) @ just 550 rpm, on highway with coasting
> ( & nitrogen ) can go 18 km per litre of just RON95 !


Whoa, that was quite a mouthful!

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09 Aug 2010, 10:09 pm
Gordon McGrew
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 01:41:56 +0800, "TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:

>> My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
>> can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
>> several tries.

>
>My '90 SM4 was meant for a cold climate & had many flaws ( so
>starting esp when hot was difficult ) e.g. ( too many to list all ) [i] ALB
>uses nearly 40 amp = of alternator 's maximum output @ high rpm :
>even after I corrected / mitigated every flaw, ALB still uses too many
>amps, so I disabled ALB, only then battery & spark plugs can get enough
>amps. [ii] windows' motors' relay wasted amps, til bypassed [iii]
>injectors' resistors wasted 19.3 watt, I replaced them with a buck
>convertor & 5 inductors & 1 diode & 5 capacitors, only then can
>injectors be cool enough to stay clean so engine starts faster & torquer
>[iv] alternator had no cooling, I added cooling & got more amps [v]
>doors & boot & key slot's bulbs wasted amps, til removed [vi] EGR &
>air intake valve both wasted amps, til disabled. [vii] air intake heating all
>disabled, to suit a warm climate. [viii] wiper motor's plastic cover
>removed to let out hot air.
>Only now my F20A starts very well, slow idle torque is 2x of original,
>can idle stably ( w-o load ) @ just 550 rpm, on highway with coasting
>( & nitrogen ) can go 18 km per litre of just RON95 !
>


Also his aluminum foil beanie shorted our the flux inverter.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09 Aug 2010, 10:22 pm
Gordon McGrew
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:09:24 -0700, "Cameo" <cameo@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>"TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4c5eeb60$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
>>> My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
>>> can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
>>> several tries.

>>
>> My '90 SM4 was meant for a cold climate & had many flaws ( so
>> starting esp when hot was difficult ) e.g. ( too many to list all )
>> [i] ALB
>> uses nearly 40 amp = ? of alternator 's maximum output @ high rpm :
>> even after I corrected / mitigated every flaw, ALB still uses too many
>> amps, so I disabled ALB, only then battery & spark plugs can get
>> enough
>> amps. [ii] windows' motors' relay wasted amps, til bypassed [iii]
>> injectors' resistors wasted 19.3 watt, I replaced them with a buck
>> convertor & 5 inductors & 1 diode & 5 capacitors, only then can
>> injectors be cool enough to stay clean so engine starts faster &
>> torquer
>> [iv] alternator had no cooling, I added cooling & got more amps [v]
>> doors & boot & key slot's bulbs wasted amps, til removed [vi] EGR &
>> air intake valve both wasted amps, til disabled. [vii] air intake
>> heating all
>> disabled, to suit a warm climate. [viii] wiper motor's plastic cover
>> removed to let out hot air.
>> Only now my F20A starts very well, slow idle torque is 2x of original,
>> can idle stably ( w-o load ) @ just 550 rpm, on highway with coasting
>> ( & nitrogen ) can go 18 km per litre of just RON95 !

>
>Whoa, that was quite a mouthful!


That wasn't the orifice I was thinking of.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09 Aug 2010, 10:35 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

On 08/08/2010 05:09 PM, Cameo wrote:
> "TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4c5eeb60$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
>>> My '93 Accord occasionally refuses to start usually in hot weather. I
>>> can usually get it going after waiting for a period of time and
>>> several tries.

>>
>> My '90 SM4 was meant for a cold climate & had many flaws ( so
>> starting esp when hot was difficult ) e.g. ( too many to list all )
>> [i] ALB
>> uses nearly 40 amp = � of alternator 's maximum output @ high rpm :
>> even after I corrected / mitigated every flaw, ALB still uses too many
>> amps, so I disabled ALB, only then battery & spark plugs can get enough
>> amps. [ii] windows' motors' relay wasted amps, til bypassed [iii]
>> injectors' resistors wasted 19.3 watt, I replaced them with a buck
>> convertor & 5 inductors & 1 diode & 5 capacitors, only then can
>> injectors be cool enough to stay clean so engine starts faster & torquer
>> [iv] alternator had no cooling, I added cooling & got more amps [v]
>> doors & boot & key slot's bulbs wasted amps, til removed [vi] EGR &
>> air intake valve both wasted amps, til disabled. [vii] air intake
>> heating all
>> disabled, to suit a warm climate. [viii] wiper motor's plastic cover
>> removed to let out hot air.
>> Only now my F20A starts very well, slow idle torque is 2x of original,
>> can idle stably ( w-o load ) @ just 550 rpm, on highway with coasting
>> ( & nitrogen ) can go 18 km per litre of just RON95 !

>
> Whoa, that was quite a mouthful!


there's only one thing scarier than chea's ridiculous bullshit on this
topic - the fact that he might actually believe it.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28 Dec 2010, 04:32 am
TE Cheah
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

| Whoa, that was quite a mouthful!
1 easy way to tell if injectors' nozzles are clogged, is to connect a
digital voltmeter to O2 sensor's output & see if voltage* is stable
during idling ( w-o load ) : if clogged, * will fluctuate between -.1
to +.5 v, if clean then +.19 to +.32 v .
Console should let users see this *, esp now when digital volt
meters are far cheaper than in '90.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28 Dec 2010, 09:00 am
Tegger
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Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

"TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in news:4d19d3be_2@news.tm.net.my:

>| Whoa, that was quite a mouthful!
> 1 easy way to tell if injectors' nozzles are clogged, is to connect a
> digital voltmeter to O2 sensor's output & see if voltage* is stable
> during idling ( w-o load ) : if clogged, * will fluctuate between -.1
> to +.5 v, if clean then +.19 to +.32 v .
> Console should let users see this *, esp now when digital volt
> meters are far cheaper than in '90.
>
>
>



Where on earth do you get this nonsense?

The oxygen sensor should flip-flop regularly between +0.1 and +0.9 volts.
Anything else means the sensor is bad.

And chances are good that a digial VOM will react far too slowly to
accurately display the flip-flops, which occur several times a second at
idle.

--
Tegger
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28 Dec 2010, 02:27 pm
TE Cheah
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

| Where on earth do you get this nonsense?
Oscilloscopes are costly & bulky, my readings are from a japan made OKII-28
meter & I think are the averages of voltages read within each report interval.
These readings make sense ; smaller fluctuation when nozzles are clean, &
lower reading during idle.

| The oxygen sensor should flip-flop regularly between +0.1 and +0.9 volts.
This is per www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm but my meter can report 1.32
v during just slight ( < throttle ) acceleration.

| Anything else means the sensor is bad.
I doubt Carley's data applies to my O2 sensor. SM4 specs have no mention..

| a digial VOM will react far too slowly to accurately display the flip-flops.
Carley says a digital volt meter can do, only the transitions can't be seen.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29 Dec 2010, 07:36 am
Tegger
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Default Re: Main Relay Replacement for Starting Problem '93 Accord

"TE Cheah" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in news:4d1aaf3b$1_2@news.tm.net.my:

>| Where on earth do you get this nonsense?
> Oscilloscopes are costly & bulky, my readings are from a japan made
> OKII-28 meter & I think are the averages of voltages read within each
> report interval. These readings make sense ; smaller fluctuation when
> nozzles are clean, & lower reading during idle.
>
>| The oxygen sensor should flip-flop regularly between +0.1 and +0.9
>| volts.
> This is per www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm but my meter can
> report 1.32 v during just slight ( < throttle ) acceleration.





You're reading it wrong, then. The unit cannot produce more than 1V.



>
>| Anything else means the sensor is bad.
> I doubt Carley's data applies to my O2 sensor. SM4 specs have no
> mention..





Honda does not use any such thing.

Carley's data generally applies to Honda O2 sensors. All oxygen sensors
operate on the same basic principles.



>
>| a digial VOM will react far too slowly to accurately display the
>| flip-flops.
> Carley says a digital volt meter can do, only the transitions can't be
> seen.
>




The word "transitions" means the flip-flops between .1 and .9.

If you can't see the transitions, then you can't see what the sensor is
doing.


--
Tegger
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