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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2010, 01:59 pm
Mark G.
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Default Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

Good morning .

Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?
Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
the hubs along with the brake rotors?

Thanks
-Mark


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2010, 07:17 pm
JRE
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

Mark G. wrote:
> Good morning .
>
> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?


I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
rotor changes.)

> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
> the hubs along with the brake rotors?


No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork. It
helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is
quite good in describing how to go about this.)

Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
(but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can
unbolt the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what
this is all about, the inside) of the hubs.

This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did. Why they
could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
me. Even GM knows better!

--
JRE
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2010, 07:30 pm
JRE
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

JRE wrote:
> Mark G. wrote:
>> Good morning .
>>
>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?

>
> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
> rotor changes.)
>
>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?

>
> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork. It
> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is
> quite good in describing how to go about this.)
>
> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can
> unbolt the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what
> this is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>
> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did. Why they
> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
> me. Even GM knows better!
>
> --
> JRE


Sorry, on rereading I realized this could have been clearer:

Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
hubs. They (the hubs!) can be tapped out fairly easily ....
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2010, 07:40 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

JRE <nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in news:hv956r$mee$1@news.eternal-
september.org:

> Mark G. wrote:
>> Good morning .
>>
>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?

>
> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
> rotor changes.)
>
>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?

>
> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork.




The proper tool is about $25 at Harbor Freight and other places.

See here:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/disconnect.html>



> It
> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is
> quite good in describing how to go about this.)




I just bend up a piece of wire coat-hanger. I then use one of the holes in
the caliper to hang it from the upper control arm.



>
> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can
> unbolt the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what
> this is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>
> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did. Why they
> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
> me. Even GM knows better!




Mazda did the same thing at one time.

Honda fixed this error for the 1998 MY.


--
Tegger
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 15 Jun 2010, 08:36 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

On 06/15/2010 05:17 PM, JRE wrote:
> Mark G. wrote:
>> Good morning .
>>
>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?

>
> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
> rotor changes.)
>
>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?

>
> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork. It
> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is quite
> good in describing how to go about this.)
>
> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can unbolt
> the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what this
> is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>
> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did.


because, as has been revealed on all subsequent accords and the fact
that honda now specify that the disks get machined every time the pads
get replaced, honda's lightweight hubs are sensitive to local distortion
where the wheel clamps on, and subsequently cause brake juddering. if
the brake disk is mounted independently, as is the case with yours, and
thus doesn't get subject to torque variance, corrosion trapped under the
wheel interface, etc, then the effects are much reduced.


> Why they
> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
> me. Even GM knows better!


as a rule, gm use much heavier [and thus stiffer] hubs.


>
> --
> JRE



if you have this brake problem on a honda, before you machine your
disks, scrape off rust, use some anti-seize on the interface, and the
correct lug nut torque sequence/process and this problem can be cured.
most shops don't know/can't be bothered to do this, hence since
"machining" involves cleanup, the fact that the problem disappears is
mis-attributed to the cutting operation, not the cleaning. google this
group got more details. works on many other vehicles too.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2010, 06:19 am
JRE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

jim beam wrote:
> On 06/15/2010 05:17 PM, JRE wrote:
>> Mark G. wrote:
>>> Good morning .
>>>
>>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?

>>
>> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
>> rotor changes.)
>>
>>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?

>>
>> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
>> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
>> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork. It
>> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
>> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
>> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
>> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is quite
>> good in describing how to go about this.)
>>
>> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
>> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
>> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
>> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can unbolt
>> the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what this
>> is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>>
>> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
>> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did.

>
> because, as has been revealed on all subsequent accords and the fact
> that honda now specify that the disks get machined every time the pads
> get replaced, honda's lightweight hubs are sensitive to local distortion
> where the wheel clamps on, and subsequently cause brake juddering. if
> the brake disk is mounted independently, as is the case with yours, and
> thus doesn't get subject to torque variance, corrosion trapped under the
> wheel interface, etc, then the effects are much reduced.
>
>
>> Why they
>> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
>> me. Even GM knows better!

>
> as a rule, gm use much heavier [and thus stiffer] hubs.


There are others who use lightweight hubs with much more serviceable
methods of disk attachment. BMW, VW, and Nissan come to mind. What are
they doing differently? (Well, BMW specifies new rotors for every pad
replacement on newer cars, but I mean in general.)

>
>
>>
>> --
>> JRE

>
>
> if you have this brake problem on a honda, before you machine your
> disks, scrape off rust, use some anti-seize on the interface, and the
> correct lug nut torque sequence/process and this problem can be cured.
> most shops don't know/can't be bothered to do this, hence since
> "machining" involves cleanup, the fact that the problem disappears is
> mis-attributed to the cutting operation, not the cleaning. google this
> group got more details. works on many other vehicles too.
>
>


What brake problem are you referring to?

One set of rotors simply wore past the minimum. One set was trashed
when the pads wore to the backing (don't ask). A third set was replaced
when a (less than year-old) caliper seized and warped a rotor and the
other was worn enough that I wanted to replace the set.

--
JRE
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2010, 10:22 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

On 06/16/2010 04:19 AM, JRE wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 06/15/2010 05:17 PM, JRE wrote:
>>> Mark G. wrote:
>>>> Good morning .
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>>>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?
>>>
>>> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
>>> rotor changes.)
>>>
>>>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>>>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>>>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?
>>>
>>> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
>>> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
>>> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork. It
>>> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
>>> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
>>> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
>>> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is quite
>>> good in describing how to go about this.)
>>>
>>> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
>>> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
>>> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
>>> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can unbolt
>>> the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what this
>>> is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>>>
>>> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
>>> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did.

>>
>> because, as has been revealed on all subsequent accords and the fact
>> that honda now specify that the disks get machined every time the pads
>> get replaced, honda's lightweight hubs are sensitive to local
>> distortion where the wheel clamps on, and subsequently cause brake
>> juddering. if the brake disk is mounted independently, as is the case
>> with yours, and thus doesn't get subject to torque variance, corrosion
>> trapped under the wheel interface, etc, then the effects are much
>> reduced.
>>
>>
>>> Why they
>>> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
>>> me. Even GM knows better!

>>
>> as a rule, gm use much heavier [and thus stiffer] hubs.

>
> There are others who use lightweight hubs with much more serviceable
> methods of disk attachment. BMW, VW, and Nissan come to mind. What are
> they doing differently? (Well, BMW specifies new rotors for every pad
> replacement on newer cars, but I mean in general.)


honda hubs, are cut pretty much to the bone. and the others also use
5-stud hubs, which while not necessary mechanically, help a little with
this issue..


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> JRE

>>
>>
>> if you have this brake problem on a honda, before you machine your
>> disks, scrape off rust, use some anti-seize on the interface, and the
>> correct lug nut torque sequence/process and this problem can be cured.
>> most shops don't know/can't be bothered to do this, hence since
>> "machining" involves cleanup, the fact that the problem disappears is
>> mis-attributed to the cutting operation, not the cleaning. google this
>> group got more details. works on many other vehicles too.
>>
>>

>
> What brake problem are you referring to?


brake juddering. common on civics, integras and later accords as above.


>
> One set of rotors simply wore past the minimum. One set was trashed when
> the pads wore to the backing (don't ask). A third set was replaced when
> a (less than year-old) caliper seized and warped a rotor and the other
> was worn enough that I wanted to replace the set.
>



--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2010, 03:59 pm
M.A. Stewart
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replace front brake rotors on 1991 Accord

Tegger (invalid@invalid.inv) writes:
> JRE <nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in news:hv956r$mee$1@news.eternal-
> september.org:
>
>> Mark G. wrote:
>>> Good morning .
>>>
>>> Is it possible to replace the front brake rotors on a 1991 Accord EX
>>> without separating the steering knuckle from the lower control arm?

>>
>> I wish. (I have a '91 Accord. With 224K on it, it's had a couple of
>> rotor changes.)
>>
>>> Hopefully I can remove the axle nut, and slide the axle out far enough
>>> to access the 12pt bolts that secure the hub to the axle, and remove
>>> the hubs along with the brake rotors?

>>
>> No. The only way to make enough clearance to remove the axle is to
>> separate the lower ball joint first. Either get the right tool (see the
>> service manual) or get a spare boot if you'll use a pickle fork.

>
>
>
> The proper tool is about $25 at Harbor Freight and other places.
>
> See here:
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/disconnect.html>
>
>
>
>> It
>> helps, but I don't recall at the moment whether it's absolutely
>> necessary, if you also separate the ball joint at the tie rod end.
>> You'll also have to take off the brake caliper and hang it from the
>> strut or spring with a piece of wire. (The Honda service manual is
>> quite good in describing how to go about this.)

>
>
>
> I just bend up a piece of wire coat-hanger. I then use one of the holes in
> the caliper to hang it from the upper control arm.
>
>
>
>>
>> Once the axle is out, you can remove the bolts that retain them and the
>> hubs. They can be tapped out fairly easily with bolts the same size as
>> (but longer than) the 12pt bolts that secure them, tapped in rotation to
>> work the hub out of the larger forging. Once they're off, you can
>> unbolt the rotors from the inside (yes, for those who are wondering what
>> this is all about, the inside) of the hubs.
>>
>> This is one of the dumbest and most aggravating designs I've run across,
>> and I have never understood why Honda did it the way they did. Why they
>> could not bolt the rotors to the outside of the hub like most is beyond
>> me. Even GM knows better!

>
>
>
> Mazda did the same thing at one time.


Disk removals on 1980, 1981, 1982 Toyota Tercels were PIA. The front
wheel bearings had to come out... with force!


>
> Honda fixed this error for the 1998 MY.
>
>
> --
> Tegger



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