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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 10:03 am
Joe J
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Default Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via I-70,
Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5 speed. The last
time I made this journey it was from East to West and in a 5-speed, fuel
injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those inclines.
Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through the Rockies? I'm
not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded with household boxes.
Well, as many as you can put in a coupe anyway.

Thanks,

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 01:31 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

"Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5 speed.
> The last time I made this journey it was from East to West and in a
> 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those inclines.
> Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through the Rockies?
> I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded with household
> boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe anyway.
>



You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's behavior.

Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in air
density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab. That's what
the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!


--
Tegger
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 01:36 pm
Joe J
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?


"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...
> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5 speed.
>> The last time I made this journey it was from East to West and in a
>> 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those inclines.
>> Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through the Rockies?
>> I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded with household
>> boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe anyway.
>>

>
>
> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's behavior.
>
> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in air
> density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab. That's what
> the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>
>
> --
> Tegger


Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 03:24 pm
Bluto
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

What about the Subaru your taking on this trip? How are you going to drive
two cars?

"Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:hqngk5$pni$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...
>> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
>> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5 speed.
>>> The last time I made this journey it was from East to West and in a
>>> 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those inclines.
>>> Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through the Rockies?
>>> I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded with household
>>> boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe anyway.
>>>

>>
>>
>> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's behavior.
>>
>> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in air
>> density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab. That's
>> what
>> the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger

>
> Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 04:15 pm
M.A. Stewart
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

"Joe J" (joejak@prodigy.net) writes:
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...


>> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
>> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:


>>


>>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5 speed.
>>> The last time I made this journey it was from East to West and in a
>>> 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those inclines.
>>> Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through the Rockies?
>>> I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded with household
>>> boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe anyway.
>>>


>>
>>
>> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's behavior.
>>
>> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in air
>> density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab. That's what
>> the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger


>
> Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.
>



You will experience some power loss at higher altitudes, this is
normal for all 'normally aspirated engines'. What is happening
at higher altitude is the air pressure is lower. Contrary to what
seems to be suction in an engine (and vacuum cleaners, or human
lungs etc.), it's the ambient air pressure that PUSHES the air into
the cylinder. At higher altitudes less air is pushed into the engine
which means less oxygen and consequently less fuel can be allowed
in (leaner fuel mixture). Since the advent of emission controls all
engines employ a method of 'altitude compensation'. This is done
by leaning the fuel mixture. On some carburetted cars (with
emissions controls) a device would leak air into the intake manifold
at high altitude to lean the mixture. This device functioned like a
barometer. Some of them were a sealed metal (copper or brass)
accordion-like bellows. At higher altitudes the bellows would expand
and open an air leak into the manifold. Now its the fuel injectors that
change the mixture (compelled by the computer etc.)

In the real old days people would have to re-jet (smaller jets) the
carburettors if they drove a lot at high altitudes. I think most garages
in the Rockies 50 plus years ago would have an inventory on hand
of all kinds of jets for re-jetting carburettors. At 10,000/12,000 ft back
then, some cars would blow black smoke like the choke was stuck on,
if they were jetted for sea level.

If you lose speed at high altitudes, shift to a lower gear and floor it!




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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 05:08 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:hqnpto$cd9$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

> "Joe J" (joejak@prodigy.net) writes:
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...

>
>>> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
>>> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:

>
>>>

>
>>>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>>>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5
>>>> speed. The last time I made this journey it was from East to West
>>>> and in a 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those
>>>> inclines. Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through
>>>> the Rockies? I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded
>>>> with household boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe
>>>> anyway.
>>>>

>
>>>
>>>
>>> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in
>>> air density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab.
>>> That's what the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger

>
>>
>> Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.
>>

>
>
> You will experience some power loss at higher altitudes, this is
> normal for all 'normally aspirated engines'. What is happening
> at higher altitude is the air pressure is lower. Contrary to what
> seems to be suction in an engine (and vacuum cleaners, or human
> lungs etc.), it's the ambient air pressure that PUSHES the air into
> the cylinder. At higher altitudes less air is pushed into the engine
> which means less oxygen and consequently less fuel can be allowed
> in (leaner fuel mixture). Since the advent of emission controls all
> engines employ a method of 'altitude compensation'. This is done
> by leaning the fuel mixture. On some carburetted cars (with
> emissions controls) a device would leak air into the intake manifold
> at high altitude to lean the mixture. This device functioned like a
> barometer. Some of them were a sealed metal (copper or brass)
> accordion-like bellows. At higher altitudes the bellows would expand
> and open an air leak into the manifold. Now its the fuel injectors
> that change the mixture (compelled by the computer etc.)
>
> In the real old days people would have to re-jet (smaller jets) the
> carburettors if they drove a lot at high altitudes. I think most
> garages in the Rockies 50 plus years ago would have an inventory on
> hand of all kinds of jets for re-jetting carburettors. At
> 10,000/12,000 ft back then, some cars would blow black smoke like the
> choke was stuck on, if they were jetted for sea level.




yet my terribly underpowered 1964 Triumph Herald 1200cc sedan still made it
to the top of Mt.Evans;14,260 ft altitude,with 3 passengers! [in 1971]
I didn't see any black smoke,either.

it would only reach 70MPH tops on the interstate at ordinary altitudes,such
as in the prairie states.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 06:03 pm
Joe J
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?


"Bluto" <yeager@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ZednYIUW4SUwlLWnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
> What about the Subaru your taking on this trip? How are you going to drive
> two cars?
>

That would be my wife driving the second car.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 07:06 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:hqnpto$cd9$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

> "Joe J" (joejak@prodigy.net) writes:
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...

>
>>> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
>>> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:

>
>>>

>
>>>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>>>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5
>>>> speed. The last time I made this journey it was from East to West
>>>> and in a 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those
>>>> inclines. Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through
>>>> the Rockies? I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded
>>>> with household boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe
>>>> anyway.
>>>>

>
>>>
>>>
>>> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in
>>> air density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab.
>>> That's what the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger

>
>>
>> Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.
>>

>
>
> You will experience some power loss at higher altitudes,




Vegas is 2,100 ft above sea level. Denver is over twice that. Wisconsin is
1,000 ft or less.

On second thought, I revise my assessment to concur with yours. OP will
notice some power loss, but it's unlikely to have any material effect on
his driving other than the need for more regular use of larger throttle
openings. OP might be wise to turn OD off on long, steep inclines in order
to prevent insanity from the constant upshift/downshift that's likely to
occur.

The upside is that the car will get stronger as the OP travels downhill!


--
Tegger
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 07:31 pm
Joe J
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?


"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9D61CC8F22464tegger@208.90.168.18...
> cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
> news:hqnpto$cd9$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:
>
>> "Joe J" (joejak@prodigy.net) writes:
>>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9D6193B78EF5Ftegger@208.90.168.18...

>>
>>>> "Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in
>>>> news:hqnaih$ba5$1@news.eternal-september.org:

>>
>>>>

>>
>>>>> Going on cross country trip next week from Vegas to Wisconsin via
>>>>> I-70, Denver, Rockies etc. I have a 98 Accord, Vtec, 4 cyl, 5
>>>>> speed. The last time I made this journey it was from East to West
>>>>> and in a 5-speed, fuel injected, 84 Saab and it struggled up those
>>>>> inclines. Anyone have experience with 4 cyl Hondas driving through
>>>>> the Rockies? I'm not pulling a trailer but the car will be loaded
>>>>> with household boxes. Well, as many as you can put in a coupe
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>

>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You probably won't notice any changes at all to the engine's
>>>> behavior.
>>>>
>>>> Your Honda's engine-management system will compensate for changes in
>>>> air density far better than the crude system used in the '84 Saab.
>>>> That's what the Honda's air-pressure sensors are for!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tegger

>>
>>>
>>> Thank you, I was wondering about technology advancements.


>
>

<snip>
> OP might be wise to turn OD off on long, steep inclines in order
> to prevent insanity from the constant upshift/downshift that's likely to
> occur.
> Tegger


OK, what's OD?

Joe



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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 21 Apr 2010, 07:46 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rocky Mtn driving-power loss?

"Joe J" <joejak@prodigy.net> wrote in news:hqo5c1$d41$1@news.eternal-
september.org:

>
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D61CC8F22464tegger@208.90.168.18...


>> OP might be wise to turn OD off on long, steep inclines in order
>> to prevent insanity from the constant upshift/downshift that's likely to
>> occur.
>> Tegger

>
> OK, what's OD?
>
> Joe
>
>



Overdrive. Most 4-speed ATs have an OD ON/OFF button.


--
Tegger
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