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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2004, 03:07 pm
billnech@msn.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hybrid Civic

The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
Toyota Prius.

The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
up by the hybrid battery pack.


The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
acceleration.


On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
gallon since the reset.

The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
better still in stop and go traffic.

But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
mileage.

I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.

An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
today.


One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
changed with the aging of the vehicle.

Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
hybrid.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11 Dec 2004, 03:29 pm
muzz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

On 10 Dec 2004 13:07:33 -0800, billnech@msn.com wrote:


For your info - I have a 2004 hybrid with 5000 miles on it. The
last two tanks of gas got me 34 mpg, with no a/c. I'm super
disappointed in it.



>The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
>from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
>personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
>similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
>an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
>with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
>Toyota Prius.
>
>The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
>other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
>including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
>cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
>up by the hybrid battery pack.
>
>
>The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
>than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
>hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
>assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
>traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
>with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
>pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
>acceleration.
>
>
>On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
>It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
>much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
>electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
>watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
>settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
>setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
>gallon since the reset.
>
>The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
>mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
>up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
>told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
>slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
>miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
>better still in stop and go traffic.
>
>But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
>mileage.
>
>I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
>One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
>windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
>decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
>knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
>perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
>
>An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
>out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
>returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
>have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
>miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
>has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
>Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
>There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
>somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
>conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
>today.
>
>
>One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
>the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
>accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
>coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
>don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
>assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
>changed with the aging of the vehicle.
>
>Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
>replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
>hybrid.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11 Dec 2004, 08:37 pm
marcel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

billnech@msn.com wrote in
news:1102712853.052484.64090@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com:

> The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
> from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
> personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
> similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
> an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
> with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
> Toyota Prius.
>
> The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
> other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
> including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
> cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
> up by the hybrid battery pack.
>
>
> The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
> than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
> hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
> assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
> traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
> with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
> pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
> acceleration.
>
>
> On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
> It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
> much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
> electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
> watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
> settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
> setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
> gallon since the reset.
>
> The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
> mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
> up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
> told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
> slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
> miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
> better still in stop and go traffic.
>
> But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
> mileage.
>
> I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
> One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
> windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
> decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
> knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
> perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
>
> An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
> out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
> returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
> have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
> miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
> has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
> Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
> There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
> somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
> conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
> today.
>
>
> One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
> the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
> accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
> coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
> don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
> assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
> changed with the aging of the vehicle.
>
> Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
> replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
> hybrid.
>
>


my '99 civic 1.5 vtec-e uses less fuel then the hybrid, when used outside
town

marcel
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11 Dec 2004, 08:40 pm
marcel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

muzz <jmuzz@charter.net> wrote in
news:ujpmr0tbit7nhi8nvv6umh99kgicm1t34t@4ax.com:

> On 10 Dec 2004 13:07:33 -0800, billnech@msn.com wrote:
>
>
> For your info - I have a 2004 hybrid with 5000 miles on it. The
> last two tanks of gas got me 34 mpg, with no a/c. I'm super
> disappointed in it.
>
>
>
>>The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
>>from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
>>personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
>>similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
>>an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
>>with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
>>Toyota Prius.
>>
>>The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
>>other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
>>including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
>>cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
>>up by the hybrid battery pack.
>>
>>
>>The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
>>than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
>>hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
>>assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
>>traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
>>with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
>>pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
>>acceleration.
>>
>>
>>On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
>>It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
>>much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
>>electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
>>watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
>>settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
>>setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
>>gallon since the reset.
>>
>>The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
>>mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
>>up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
>>told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
>>slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
>>miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
>>better still in stop and go traffic.
>>
>>But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
>>mileage.
>>
>>I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
>>One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
>>windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
>>decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
>>knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
>>perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
>>
>>An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
>>out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
>>returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
>>have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
>>miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
>>has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
>>Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
>>There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
>>somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
>>conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
>>today.
>>
>>
>>One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
>>the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
>>accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
>>coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
>>don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
>>assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
>>changed with the aging of the vehicle.
>>
>>Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
>>replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
>>hybrid.

>
>


civic 3 door hatch 1.5 vtec-e : 40 mpg or 17 km/l

civic sedan or 5 door hatch does about the same

marcel
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14 Dec 2004, 09:40 pm
James M. Kelly
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

I drive from Danbury CT to Westbury NY everyday, possible 6 times a week.
My 2003 Civic EX doing 75 pmh will get 33 mpg if I use the cruise control to
excellerate and slow down. First set of front brakes lasted 55,000, I
change the oil every 5000 miles along with the tire rotation. Go figure,
why buy a hybrid--the honda salesman talked me out of it.
<billnech@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1102712853.052484.64090@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
> from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
> personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
> similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
> an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
> with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
> Toyota Prius.
>
> The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
> other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
> including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
> cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
> up by the hybrid battery pack.
>
>
> The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
> than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
> hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
> assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
> traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
> with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
> pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
> acceleration.
>
>
> On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
> It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
> much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
> electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
> watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
> settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
> setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
> gallon since the reset.
>
> The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
> mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
> up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
> told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
> slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
> miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
> better still in stop and go traffic.
>
> But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
> mileage.
>
> I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
> One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
> windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
> decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
> knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
> perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
>
> An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
> out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
> returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
> have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
> miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
> has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
> Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
> There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
> somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
> conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
> today.
>
>
> One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
> the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
> accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
> coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
> don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
> assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
> changed with the aging of the vehicle.
>
> Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
> replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
> hybrid.
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15 Dec 2004, 08:06 am
Me
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:40:38 -0500, "James M. Kelly"
<jmkelly02@charter.net> wrote:

>I drive from Danbury CT to Westbury NY everyday, possible 6 times a week.
>My 2003 Civic EX doing 75 pmh will get 33 mpg if I use the cruise control to
>excellerate and slow down. First set of front brakes lasted 55,000, I
>change the oil every 5000 miles along with the tire rotation. Go figure,
>why buy a hybrid--the honda salesman talked me out of it.


Up until about 160,000 miles, I was getting well over 40 mpg
regardless of highway speed in my 1994 Civic DX. My personal best was
a tank driving across Tennessee where I got 48.5 mpg. Now I average
about 36-38 mpg at 182,000 miles. My very worst tank was 32mpg which
was entirely city driving, popping the clutch and running to the next
red light :-).

Nate
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 15 Dec 2004, 08:56 am
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

<billnech@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1102712853.052484.64090@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
> from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
> personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
> similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
> an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
> with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
> Toyota Prius.
>
> The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
> other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
> including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
> cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
> up by the hybrid battery pack.
>
>
> The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
> than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
> hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
> assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
> traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
> with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
> pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
> acceleration.
>
>
> On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
> It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
> much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
> electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
> watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
> settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
> setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
> gallon since the reset.
>
> The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
> mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
> up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
> told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
> slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
> miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
> better still in stop and go traffic.
>
> But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
> mileage.
>
> I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
> One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
> windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
> decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
> knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
> perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
>
> An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
> out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
> returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
> have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
> miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
> has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
> Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
> There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
> somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
> conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
> today.
>
>
> One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
> the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
> accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
> coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
> don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
> assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
> changed with the aging of the vehicle.
>
> Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
> replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
> hybrid.
>


Hybrids are still in an early phase of development. To provide any benefit
on freeways will require the electric technology (battery, controller,
motor) being advanced to the point that the fueled power plant can be
downsized significantly - say, to 50 hp or less. The essence of
hybridization is to separate acceleration performance from engine power, and
today's systems don't provide a large separation. In addition, to accomodate
freeway speeds over mountain passes will take another trick - yet to be
determined.

We have had a 2002 Toyota Prius for just over 2 years, and we love it. The
Toyota system is different from the Honda IMA, particularly in that the
engine is totally under control of the hybrid system computer. (If I floor
the accelerator in park or neutral, the engine speed slowly rises to about
2000 rpm over the span of a minute or two.) There is also no transmission -
what Toyota calls an "electronic CVT" is composed of a pair of electric
motor/generators and a planetary differential arrangement. We average about
50 mpg around town in the summer and 45-48 mpg in the winter. The in-town
acceleration is great, especially so because our 7000 ft elevation cuts more
powerful cars down to size. The electric side of the Prius doesn't breathe
hard at altitude - it doesn't breathe at all. But at 75 mph the economy
drops into the low 40s (even below 40 against a headwind), down from 60 or
better at 65 mph. I canna change the laws of physics.

Hybrid technology certainly is one to watch. Honda isn't as aggressive about
developing it as Toyota is, but they are interested in the performance side
of it. Check out the DualNote concept car:
http://www.you.com.au/news/979.htm (Except they describe the Prius as "super
lightweight" - the pre-2004 model is actually heavier than the equivalent
sized Corolla.)

Mike

Mike


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 15 Dec 2004, 03:18 pm
Jason
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hybrid Civic

In article <GtOdnUAVl_U_zV3cRVn-hg@sedona.net>, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

> <billnech@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1102712853.052484.64090@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > The other day, I had an opportunity to drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
> > from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and back...about 360 miles total. My
> > personal car is a 1998 Honda Civic sedan, so the cars were quite
> > similar in size and feel. This is the first time that I have ever had
> > an extended ride in a hybrid, and the first time I have driven one,
> > with the exception of a quick run around the block in a friend's new
> > Toyota Prius.
> >
> > The Civic hybrid is identical inside to the standard Civic sedan. In
> > other words, for a compact car, it offers substantial comfort and room,
> > including more legroom in the back seat than many mid or full sized
> > cars. The trunk remains fairly roomy, though some of the space is taken
> > up by the hybrid battery pack.
> >
> >
> > The car accelerates wonderfully with the battery assist...much better
> > than my conventional Civic, which in turn accelerates well. There is no
> > hesitation, slowing or increased RPM on upgrades, as the battery
> > assists kicks in to maintain speed without taxing the engine. In local
> > traffic, the car shuts off while stopped and then accelerates instantly
> > with the battery assist when you hit the gas. In short, it was a
> > pleasure to drive, with Honda's wonderful handling along with excellent
> > acceleration.
> >
> >
> > On the dashboard, there is a gage that deals with the hybrid details.
> > It indicates the level of battery charge and indicates whether and how
> > much the battery is charging or assisting. The latter is with an
> > electronic dial that swings one way then the other...fascinating to
> > watch. There is also a toggle between two different trip mileage
> > settings and the car's odometer. You can reset either trip mileage
> > setting at any time and the car will compute the average miles per
> > gallon since the reset.
> >
> > The car is advertised to get about 48 miles per gallon. The trip
> > mileage calculator started low as the car took a little time to charge
> > up the battery, and then took off. While on the Thruway to Utica, it
> > told me that I was averaging about 38 miles per gallon. While on the
> > slower Route 12 to Watertown, the average eventually went up to 41
> > miles per gallon. It does better at lower speeds than at 70, and
> > better still in stop and go traffic.
> >
> > But I wonder about a few things associated with the calculated trip
> > mileage.
> >
> > I thought the mileage should have been better. A few thoughts on that.
> > One, the entire trip was in wet windy weather. The headlights,
> > windshield wipers, heater and radio were on at all times. That may have
> > decreased the battery load running the car. Plus the windy day may have
> > knocked down the gas mileage. Second, the car had 60,000 miles on it so
> > perhaps the battery is not as efficient as it ages.
> >
> > An alternative explanation is that the average miles per gallon read
> > out may not have been accurate. I did not refill the gas tank upon
> > returning the car...fleet management takes care of that. So I didn't
> > have the opportunity to actually calculate gas mileage. After 360
> > miles, the gas gage still registered a quarter of a tank. And a Civic
> > has about a 12-gallon tank. So the actual mileage may have been higher.
> > Though 9 gallons for 360 miles still averages 40 miles per gallon.
> > There has indeed been talk that actual hybrid mileage rates are
> > somewhat lower than advertised. I certainly have a topic of
> > conversation when I get together with my friend the Prius owner later
> > today.
> >
> >
> > One other thought. While cruising down the Thruway at 70, I expected
> > the battery assist to take over periodically. It didn't except for when
> > accelerating or on upgrades, even though it was fully charged. When
> > coasting down a downgrade, the meter would go into "charging" mode. I
> > don't know if this is normal, if it simply doesn't register cruising
> > assistance from the battery, or if perhaps this is something that
> > changed with the aging of the vehicle.
> >
> > Still, it was a very enjoyable car to drive and when it's time to
> > replace my 98 Civic in another four years, I'll certainly consider a
> > hybrid.
> >

>
> Hybrids are still in an early phase of development. To provide any benefit
> on freeways will require the electric technology (battery, controller,
> motor) being advanced to the point that the fueled power plant can be
> downsized significantly - say, to 50 hp or less. The essence of
> hybridization is to separate acceleration performance from engine power, and
> today's systems don't provide a large separation. In addition, to accomodate
> freeway speeds over mountain passes will take another trick - yet to be
> determined.
>
> We have had a 2002 Toyota Prius for just over 2 years, and we love it. The
> Toyota system is different from the Honda IMA, particularly in that the
> engine is totally under control of the hybrid system computer. (If I floor
> the accelerator in park or neutral, the engine speed slowly rises to about
> 2000 rpm over the span of a minute or two.) There is also no transmission -
> what Toyota calls an "electronic CVT" is composed of a pair of electric
> motor/generators and a planetary differential arrangement. We average about
> 50 mpg around town in the summer and 45-48 mpg in the winter. The in-town
> acceleration is great, especially so because our 7000 ft elevation cuts more
> powerful cars down to size. The electric side of the Prius doesn't breathe
> hard at altitude - it doesn't breathe at all. But at 75 mph the economy
> drops into the low 40s (even below 40 against a headwind), down from 60 or
> better at 65 mph. I canna change the laws of physics.
>
> Hybrid technology certainly is one to watch. Honda isn't as aggressive about
> developing it as Toyota is, but they are interested in the performance side
> of it. Check out the DualNote concept car:
> http://www.you.com.au/news/979.htm (Except they describe the Prius as "super
> lightweight" - the pre-2004 model is actually heavier than the equivalent
> sized Corolla.)
>
> Mike
>
> Mike


Mike,
Great post. I read an article in a car magazine indicating that several
American companies are now placing hybrid engines in full sized trucks and
full sized SUVs. I believe that hybrid engines should result in the world
oil supply lasting much longer than some experts have predicted.

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