Honda Car Forum

"Howard" <Howardh@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<sMPrd.75974$IQ.72501@bignews6.bellsouth.net> ...
> No, there's not been a problem with that switch. It unfortunately failed and
> didn't make it to its life expectancy. But I suppose you expected it to last
> forever. Yeah, 38,000 miles or 2-3 years is a little short but s--t happens.
> Stop whining over trivial items. Save it for a serious matter, when you
> really may need Honda's help. I'll bet you never visit your dealer for your
> maintenance but your there bright and early every time they have something
> free for you, like any warranty work or product update. And there you go
> demanding free parts, free labor, demanding something you think you deserve
> but is not spelled out in any contract or warranty. You yell and scream you
> got ripped off because they wanted a few extra dollars for their expertise
> and knowledge and/or tools that made it able for them to know immediately
> what was wrong with your switch. Maybe they get $70 or $80 an hour labor,
> but I'm sure you would have felt a whole bunch better to bring it to your
> local greasemonkey and pay him "only" $45 an hour for the two hours he would
> spend trying to figure out what the problem was, if he could figure it out
> the first time.
> Get a life!
> "Hand" <hand@engineer.com> wrote in message
> news:63965b3.0412021659.1cad2690@posting.google.co m...


You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?

Here's my take socket head: When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of
labor charges for work that takes you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
book," I'll stop complaining.
When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
I'll stop asking for free anything.
When you tell me you've done all of the "work" to my car but won't
produce the old parts, I'll start believing you're honest.

Until then...I'll go to my ASE Master Tech and a guy I trust over you
any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

On 12/3/2004 12:30 PM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge:

> In article <LlZrd.91960$8G4.6597@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 12/3/2004 5:23 AM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge:
>>
>> > In article <wridnabRDaiFbjLcRVn-jw@rcn.net>, Abeness <news@nada.x>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Howard wrote:
>> >> > Get a life!
>> >>
>> >> I sure am tired of seeing schmucks around here like you who don't have
>> >> anything better to do than to type 217 words simply to insult someone.
>> >> Perhaps it's you who need to get a life? Who do you think you are,
>> >> insulting people like this? Please, go away, and don't waste my time.
>> >
>> > Obviously, you didn't like what Howard had to say--probably because he
>> > hit too close to home for you, eh?
>> >
>> > Howard was right:
>> >
>> >> No, there's not been a problem with that switch. It unfortunately failed
>> >> and
>> >> didn't make it to its life expectancy. But I suppose you expected it to
>> >> last
>> >> forever. Yeah, 38,000 miles or 2-3 years is a little short but s--t
>> >> happens.
>> >> Stop whining over trivial items. Save it for a serious matter, when you
>> >> really may need Honda's help. I'll bet you never visit your dealer for
>> >> your
>> >> maintenance but your there bright and early every time they have something
>> >> free for you, like any warranty work or product update. And there you go
>> >> demanding free parts, free labor, demanding something you think you
>> >> deserve
>> >> but is not spelled out in any contract or warranty. You yell and scream
>> >> you
>> >> got ripped off because they wanted a few extra dollars for their expertise
>> >> and knowledge and/or tools that made it able for them to know immediately
>> >> what was wrong with your switch. Maybe they get $70 or $80 an hour labor,
>> >> but I'm sure you would have felt a whole bunch better to bring it to your
>> >> local greasemonkey and pay him "only" $45 an hour for the two hours he
>> >> would
>> >> spend trying to figure out what the problem was, if he could figure it out
>> >> the first time.
>> >
>>
>> Suck my dick, you supercilious sanctimonious bastard.
>
> THERE'S an intelligent response.


Do you think that by clipping the intelligent response, you'll make
people think that there wasn't one? There's history in usenet, Elmo.
Your sophistry fails you.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
.... "My greatest fear in life is that no one will remember me after I'm
dead." -- Anonymous

Jumper wrote:
>
> Until then...I'll go to my ASE Master Tech and a guy I trust over you
> any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

LOL... touche!

i had a VW rabbit, and a trusted watercooled VW only mechanic. he did my
engine rebuild, and i had to upsell *him* on doing things, like new CV
joints, etc.

since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.

of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time.

most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc.

i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.

"You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
Here's my take socket head:"

Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
to a limit.
What do you do in life? Are you a plumber? Are you a doctor? Do you charge
less because the toilet went in quicker so you'll lower the agreed on price
you made with your customer? Or the last patient was out of the examining
room 10 minutes faster than the last patient. Do you charge less for your
jobs because you've become proficient at what you do?
Get real! An independent may charge less per hour,.but any busnessman goes
by an industry standard. That standard is a Chilton or Motor manual. If a
shop can charge less per hour and still do the job with expertise and
satisfy his customer, then he is the successful one. You, as the customer,
have the freedom to choose any dealer, technician, greasemonkey or
shade-tree mechanic you want.

"When you tell me you've done all of the "work" to my car but won't
produce the old parts, I'll start believing you're honest."
Did you ask up front for the old parts? If you did, and they didn't have
them then don't pay. Does your independent ASE tech do that for you? Why,
you don't trust him either?

"When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
I'll stop asking for free anything."
If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.
They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying. Did you ever hear of
Caveat Emptor? Perhaps that's a little foreign to you!
Why do you think you desrve something free? When you go to your supermarket,
where you spend more than on your car, do you ask them for free eggs? milk?
They make you walk all the way to the back of the store for your basic
foods. Don't you think there's a little "upselling" going on there? Haven't
you stopped by the fancy display and bought those delicious chocolate
cookies, because they're on sale, or you were hungry. Do you complain about
that?

"When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of labor charges for work that takes
you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
book," I'll stop complaining."
I would have quit going back after the first time that happened. But if you
aren't smart enough to change dealers or go to an indepedent shop after you
felt you've been overcharged or abused more than once, I can understand your
frustration with some common sense.

That's just my 2 cents. You're entitled to yours too.

P.S. I hope I haven't burned out any text editors.

In article <f1e9e025.0412031250.6b418902@posting.google.com >,
kip.dunagan@gmail.com (Jumper) wrote:

> Here's my take socket head: When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of
> labor charges for work that takes you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
> book," I'll stop complaining.

A *good* tech might be able to do it under the book time. A *bad* tech
will do it over the book time.

You can pay a flat rate and be protected from bad techs, or you can pay
the real time rate and take the chance that you get some bozo who
doesn't know one end of the wrench from another. The guy next to you
might get a timing belt done for $150 labor, while you pay $750 because
the guy was slow. Is that how you'd rather do it? No.

The ONLY way a dealership has of controlling that on a fair basis is the
book rate.

In article <f1e9e025.0412031250.6b418902@posting.google.com >,
kip.dunagan@gmail.com (Jumper) wrote:

> Here's my take socket head: When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of
> labor charges for work that takes you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
> book," I'll stop complaining.

It's all about the value of the work to the customer. It has nothing to
do with how long the job took to do.

In article <Dl7sd.60334$Oc.13628@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Dave Kelsen <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >> Suck my dick, you supercilious sanctimonious bastard.
> >
> > THERE'S an intelligent response.
>
>
> Do you think that by clipping the intelligent response, you'll make
> people think that there wasn't one?

Um, no, not at all.


> There's history in usenet, Elmo.

Yes, there is--and I am well aware of it. Aware enough to know to trim
quotes and quote only what I'm responding to.

"since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time."

"most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc."

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...

Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
in labor to put back old or new axles?

Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
very long if they were out to "get you "?
Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

Howard

Howard wrote:

> "You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
> Here's my take socket head:"
>
> Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
> don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
> car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
> great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
> correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
> actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
> suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
> specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
> particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
> tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
> their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
> shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
> to a limit.

as do the independants... the really good ones having worked for a
dealer for a while. lots of schooling and training involved.

> "When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
> I'll stop asking for free anything."

> If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
> it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
> first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
> failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.

depends on what it is. oil changes are crucial. lubing the hinges isnt.
what gets me is all the added bullshit, which is why i stay away from
dealers. i dont want to pay $300 for a spark plug and air filter change,
that also includes "visual inspections" and oiling the door hinges...

but hey- a lot of em sit on prime real estate and have VERY nice
buildings. takes money to pay for all that.


> They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
> needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying.

they sell whats easy.

Howard wrote:

> "since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
> of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
> rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
> later time."
>
> "most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
> loyalty, repeat business, etc."
>
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ck8sd.708993$8_6.581597@attbi_s04...
>
> Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
> when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
> in labor to put back old or new axles?

none at all... and he didnt even bring up the idea of replacing that
stuff... *I* did.
>
> Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
> very long if they were out to "get you "?

sure! throw enough commercials on the air, have a dealership at an "auto
mall", and you can do what you want, pretty much.

toyota of cerritos was forced to shut down for a weekend as punishment
for fraud. dunno if that was an FTC case, or what... but theyre still
around, doing booming business, and still shafting people.

> Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
> long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
> To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

once you got their money, **** em.